[Gocamino] Wise pilgrim

Sil sillydoll at gmail.com
Wed Jul 31 12:06:39 PDT 2013 

Quote:  "This is a forum for pilgrims. People on a journey or search of
moral or spiritual significance."

If you were the Forum owner or moderator would you exclude those who don't
qualify for the above?

On 31 July 2013 19:37, <cwlowery at pga.com> wrote:

>
> This is a good example of a false idea being postulated, and a discussion
> ensuing as to its degree of rightness. Without anyone saying, " This is
> false".
>
> No, not well said.
>
> Like calling something blue, red, and discussing the quality of it's
> redness. We have words in order to distinguish things.
>
> PILGRIMAGE- A journey or search of moral or spiritual significance.
>
> So what is the elephant in the room? Who said the emperor has no clothes?
> I do.
>
> The curious hikers you speak are not being discussed here. This is a forum
> for pilgrims. People on a journey or search of moral or spiritual
> significance.
>
> See the subject you type under? WISE PILGRIM
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Joanie Hess" <jethess777 at aol.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:45am
> To: cwlowery at pga.com, richard at fergusonsculpture.com
> Cc: gocamino at oakapple.net, santiagobis at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Re: [Gocamino] Wise pilgrim
>
>
>
> Well said!
> I think the discussion, while noteworthy initially, has been run into the
> ground.  By now, most everyone is in one of two camps-- those that want
> such a gadget and those who don't.  I find the continuation of a discussion
> of why one would or wouldn't a bit like those striving to convert others to
> their way of thought (and the purpose behind it being the dissatisfaction
> that 100% of the folks don't think so in either direction).
> At least lodging, what to pack, airline flights, new products that might
> be useful to today's pilgrim --  all the result of improved technology,
> BTW--  keeps changing to the point where it is necessary to be alerted to
> such so that can make a pilgrimage happen.
>
> Just my thoughts...
> Joanie
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cwlowery at pga.com
> To: Richard Ferguson
> Cc: †GoCamino OakApple ; Santiagobis Camino
> Sent: Wed, Jul 31, 2013 1:17 am
> Subject: Re: [Gocamino] Wise pilgrim
>
>
>
> Yes Richard, it does seem natural that a person embarking on a long walk
> in order to develop a clearer understanding of the ancient meaning of life
> would have some reservation about carrying these gadgets. And further, for
> these gadgets to become a topic on a forum such as this seems odd. And
> further, for these gadgets these folks speak of, to become the primary
> focus of a forum such as this, one dedicated to the pilgrim in all of us
> seems ridiculous to an experienced pilgrim, say from 1300's. We all have a
> tendency to be easily led, to accept as valid a notion brought forth by
> someone. I speak up to shake this conversation into the idea that these
> gadgets, invented and marketed by slick salesman, have nothing to do with a
> pilgrimage, and the idea that they do is ridiculous. Or something else.
> Maybe evidence that the best intended souls, men and women who engage this
> forum, sharing their deep memories and epiphanies of the way, people who
> are educated, wisened, successful, have been taken in, like their children,
> by these salesmen and their gadgets,  selling their wears to anyone who can
> buy them. Its just a different perspective -----Original Message-----From:
> "Richard Ferguson" <[mailto:richard at fergusonsculpture.com]
> richard at fergusonsculpture.com>Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 1:40amTo:
> [mailto:cwlowery at pga.com] cwlowery at pga.comCc: "Sil" <[mailto:
> sillydoll at gmail.com] sillydoll at gmail.com>, "†GoCamino OakApple" <[mailto:
> gocamino at oakapple.net] gocamino at oakapple.net>, "Santiagobis Camino"
> <[mailto:santiagobis at yahoogroups.com] santiagobis at yahoogroups.com>Subject:
> Re: Wise pilgrimAs a late adopter of smartphones, I just returned from my
> first overseas trip during which I had a smartphone with a working internet
> connection.   It did change the trip.  Sometimes I used it for navigation,
> other times for email, translation, Facebook, or just plain looking up
> things.  I did blog the trip, but with a laptop, not a smartphone.  I used
> the smartphone multiple times a day.But I am having some second thoughts
> about doing a camino with all of that technology.  Certainly walking with a
> GPS is a different experience than reading a map and asking for directions.
>   Yet I would like to be able to email, or call home, or just call for a
> reservation.    I suppose that I could leave my phone turned off until I
> have a real need for it. Or not buy a data plan, and only have internet
> access where I have WIFI. I think that part of my hesitation is that for
> me, asking for directions was an important part of my experience when I
> walked before.  Also, computers are a big part of my daily life, and if I
> carry my smartphone, that is like a continuation of my regular life.  Maybe
> I think that a pilgrimage should be a significant break with my regular
> life, stripping it down to the essentials.......Last time I walked I had an
> email list, and emailed a report when I could, which kept family and
> friends informed.  To some extent, writing down your experiences, in a
> notebook or on a computer, has value, in terms of forcing you to think
> through and describe your experience.   I was thinking that a smartphone
> could let me write and email or blog my experiences.Decisions,
> decisions......  I am currently planning to walk in March-April, probably
> from somewhere in France to Pamplona, so I am starting to focus more on
> pilgrimage.RichardOn Jul 21, 2013, at 2:13 PM, [mailto:cwlowery at pga.com]
> cwlowery at pga.com wrote:> > Thank you for the responses gentlemen. I do
> feel blessed to have walked with nothing save a very small amount of food
> and water. And to walk in Silence.> I feel blessed to not even be able to
> remotely understand how someone could make pilgrimage and try to carry so
> much. It seems so contradictory to me.> > Jesus said judge not, lest. Yes,
> this I understand. And I am happy for anyone who finds their way, using
> whatever means they choose.> > But for me, when asked by his disciples
> where will we sleep, He said, Consider the birds. Find Peace here.> > When
> asked by his disciples, "What will we eat?" Buddha said the Lord will
> provide.> > I believe these are important lessons they were teaching.  A
> pilgrimage can be a singular chance in one's life to leave the inventions
> of entrepeneurs and slick salesmen behind. Yes it is possible.> >
> -----Original Message-----> From: "Sil" <[mailto:sillydoll at gmail.com]
> sillydoll at gmail.com>> Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 10:17am> To: [mailto:
> saintjames at yahoogroups.com] saintjames at yahoogroups.com> Cc: [mailto:
> cwlowery at pga.com] cwlowery at pga.com, [mailto:santiagobis at yahoogroups.com]
> santiagobis at yahoogroups.com, [mailto:gocamino at oakapple.net]
> gocamino at oakapple.net> Subject: Re: [saintjames] Re: [Gocamino] Wise
> pilgrim> > > > To add to Bob's list, we now have shirts that wick-away the
> sweat. Gortex shoes.  Telescopic walking poles. Sunglasses.  Motor cars,
> trains, buses.  Telephones, email, Internet.  Elevators and escalators.>
> And, we'd have to do without café-con-leche (coffee was only introduced in
> Europe in the 17thc) no tomatoes for those salsas, no patata tortiallas
> (potatoes were also only introduced in the 18th c) and many other delicious
> things we take for granted.  No - its not possible to replicate the
> medieval experience and every generation adds new technology to the walking
> pilgrim.> > > On 21 July 2013 15:51, Robert Spenger <[[mailto:
> rspenger at earthlink.net?] mailto:rspenger at earthlink.net] [mailto:
> rspenger at earthlink.net] rspenger at earthlink.net> wrote:> Devices - like
> trans-atlantic jet planes? Albergues, not only with running water, but
> often heated? Like lightweight packs and well made walking shoes? Credit
> cards and paper money instead of heavy coins? The list goes on and on. It
> is not the same world; it is not possible to have the same experience as a
> medieval pilgrim. Nor is it likely that anyone on this forum has
> experienced the kind of life that the medieval folks lived just staying at
> home.> > I have done several caminos without mobile electronic devices
> except for cameras. Now that I have an iPad mini (obviously not a necessity
> - just a fun toy) I would like to find out just how much I can do with it.
> It is a challenge, just like walking the camino in my 80s. Come to think of
> it, in the old days I would have been lucky to have made it to half that
> age. A couple of other devices come to mind. Corrective lenses have been
> around for a couple of centuries at least, but certainly not available for
> the 12th century pilgrim. Many modern folks would find it very difficult to
> get by without their glasses. I manage to get lost even with them. Also, in
> my own case, porcine tissue aortic valves were just a dream much less than
> a century ago. Now there is an indispensable device for me at least. it is
> not  electronic, but replacement heart valves were developed just about the
> same time that the transistor was.> > Bob S.> > > > On Jul 20, 2013, at
> 9:27 PM, [[mailto:cwlowery at pga.com?] mailto:cwlowery at pga.com] [mailto:
> cwlowery at pga.com] cwlowery at pga.com wrote:> > Imagine when people walked
> this way without these devices you speak of. Can you? If so, do you feel
> that they have a different experience to yours? Imagine thousands of years
> ago. Tap away> > -----Original Message-----> From: "Robert Spenger"
> <[[mailto:rspenger at earthlink.net?] mailto:rspenger at earthlink.net] [mailto:
> rspenger at earthlink.net] rspenger at earthlink.net>> Sent: Thursday, July 18,
> 2013 7:29pm> To: [[mailto:Santiagobis at yahoogroups.com?] mailto:
> Santiagobis at yahoogroups.com] [mailto:Santiagobis at yahoogroups.com]
> Santiagobis at yahoogroups.com, "Saint James †Yahoo" <[[mailto:
> saintjames at yahoogroups.com?] mailto:saintjames at yahoogroups.com] [mailto:
> saintjames at yahoogroups.com] saintjames at yahoogroups.com>, [[mailto:
> gocamino at oakapple.net?] mailto:gocamino at oakapple.net] [mailto:
> gocamino at oakapple.net] gocamino at oakapple.net> Subject: [Gocamino] Wise
> pilgrim> > Well, I have overcome one major road block (camino block?). I
> kept getting the elevation plot for the first stage when I tapped on
> various arrows. I finally found out that scrolling down that page reveals
> the promised information. I have not found any directions in the
> application that indicate this procedure. Not very intuitive I might say.
> Or am I just too dense?> > Bob S.> > > Sent from my iPad mini>
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-- 
Sil
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