[Gocamino] The Way the movie in Toronto.and in the U.S.A. at last!
Tim
tim at errecaldia.com
Tue Oct 11 09:33:47 PDT 2011
Hello one and all. Aren't we getting a little bit hot under the collar
here? As a not very religious person who thinks that all should worship
or not worship as they please I think you are all getting a bit steamed
up. For several reasons.
1. Rosina is I know a seriously religious person and takes it very
seriously but I think she should be a bit careful when she states
that 90% of the US are Christians which is patently not the case,
nor is there any real sign of anti religious bias in the US media,
rather the reverse if anything. When it comes to Europe I doubt
very much if 50% are Christians and yet the film is on show here.
2. I take Claire's point of view very seriously. There are, without
doubt, a very small and select group, I would almost say cabal,
that control film distribution in the USA and their marketing
gurus say what will and won't sell. If a film doesn't fit their
criteria then it doesn't get distributed. I don't think that is
religious bias just marketing decisions based on some fairly
narrow parameters.
3. It's almost like the way in which the media in the US have been
trying to ignore the 'Occupy Wall Street' movement. Once again a
small group has tight control over a large swathe of US media and
have been exercising that control.
4. I do find it telling that a top notch director/producer Emilio
Estevez and his equally esteemed and talented father have found it
so difficult to get a film released which they had paid for and
for which the risk to the distributors was far lower.
5. I would put it to you all that this is just a symptom of a far
greater malaise which is that too much power is being concentrated
in the hands of too few people.
In closing may I just say to you all that verbal fisticuffs or the
real thing very rarely solve anything, all they usually do is to
more firmly entrench already entrenched positions.
Buen Camino.
Tim
On 11/10/11 15:55, Howard Mendes wrote:
> Sil
>
>
> Thank you for your pedantic, but irrelevant message. Have you ever encountered the Argumentum Ad-hominem: Shoot the messenger fallacy?
>
>
> You do not address any of the issues that I raised:
>
>
> 1. Who are the the "dictator(s of) so-called "political correctness",
>
>
> 2. Who are the perpetrators of "a relentless determination to eradicate the Christian foundations of these U.S. of A."
>
>
> 3. Who is responsible for keeping "movies and TV programs with what might be perceived as a Christian slant off
> movie houses and television airings, and out of circulation".
>
>
> 4. What does this imply, if not a veiled threat? "Nevertheless, the nearly 90% Christian population of the country will not be
> denied; not for long."
>
>
> 5. Where did this 90% number come from? Does it include Mormons?
>
>
> Take another look at the original rant before you go on the attack against me for throwing some cold water in your face. Then tell me candidly whether you embrace the same sentiments.
>
>
> Howard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sil<sillydoll at gmail.com>
> To: hme347<hme347 at aol.com>
> Cc: Gocamino<gocamino at oakapple.net>; saintjames<saintjames at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Tue, Oct 11, 2011 5:20 am
> Subject: Re: [Gocamino] The Way the movie in Toronto.and in the U.S.A. at last!
>
>
> Abusive ad hominem (also called personal abuse or personalattacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to attack his claim or invalidate hisargument. Thistactic is logically fallacious because insults and negative facts about theopponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of theopponent's arguments or assertions. People who use this tactic usually lack the necessary skills to debate a subject in an objective and intelligent manner.
> When entering a debate:
> DON’T let your emotions get the better ofyou.
> DO stay calm
> DON’T attack your opponents
> DON’T use inappropriate language
> DO be polite
>
>
>
>
> On 11 October 2011 14:13, Howard Mendes<hme347 at aol.com> wrote:
>
> This is my first posting in several months. You are dredging up "old news" with my previous contributions. I cannot write to Rosina privately, unfortunately, because she has publucly stated that she has blocked all messages I send. If I said Grant was intolerant on some issue, I was probably correct. You are nothing but an apologist for Rosina's demogogy and anti-pluralistic rant. Shame!.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sil<sillydoll at gmail.com>
> To: Howard Mendes<hme347 at aol.com>
> Cc: blaroli<blaroli at aol.com>; GoCamino<GoCamino at oakapple.net>; saintjames<saintjames at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:29 pm
> Subject: Re: [Gocamino] The Way the movie in Toronto.and in the U.S.A. at last!
>
>
> Howard Medes! I think you owe us all an apology for your rude, aggressive, un-called for response to a fellow Forum member's post. I, for one, am growing exceedingly irritated with your outbursts at every post that doesn't agree with your view.
> Practise what you've preached in response to Wilna's question about your lack of Camino spirit:
>
>
> By the way, if you haveproblems with me or my postings, please send me private messages so I do nothave copy everyone in my responses to let them know what I think of yourListserve remarks.
>
> And bear in mind what you once said to Grant Spangler:
>
> You are guilty of the intolerance that you decry.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11 October 2011 06:59, Howard Mendes<hme347 at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Excuse me, Rosina! Where do you get YOUR political correctness? Who are the dictators you refer to? Who is trying to "eradicate the religious foundations of these U.S. of A."? The Roberts Supreme Court? Justices Scalia, Alito and Thomas?
>
>
> Perhaps zealots like you are not happy with movie exhibitors and TV producers who are exercising their prerogatives giving the public what they want to see, not religious screes and propaganda. (I am NOT referring to "The Way" since I have not seen the film and I have no idea why the NY Times did not give the names of the theaters where it can be seen. I doubt whether there was anything sinister going on as you imply. Just an editorial oversight.)
>
>
> How many of the "90% Christian population" (sic) are churchgoers or actually practice their faith in any way except at Christmas? Did you include Mormons in the 90%? Do I detect a threat that you and your cohorts in the Tea Party, Moral Majority and other ultra right wing groups intend to rise up and do something if you are denied Christian "slanted" offerings? I find your pro-Christian diatribe just as offensive as the pro-Moslem, anti-Christian violence now taking place in Egypt.
>
>
>
> I think you owe us all an apology for your narrow-minded, anti American ranting which is copied below.
>
>
>
> As anyone in these parts can't fail to perceive, on a daily basis, the
> dictatorial so-called "political correctness", and a relentless determination
> to eradicate the Christian foundations of these U.S. of A., pretty much keeps
> movies and TV programs with what might be perceived as a Christian slant off
> movie houses and television airings, and out of circulation.
> Nevertheless, the nearly 90% Christian population of the country will not be
> denied; not for long.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rosina<blaroli at aol.com>
> To: GoCamino<GoCamino at oakapple.net>; saintjames<saintjames at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Mon, Oct 10, 2011 6:33 pm
> Subject: Re: [Gocamino] The Way the movie in Toronto.and in the U.S.A. at last!
>
>
>
> As anyone in these parts can't fail to perceive, on a daily basis, the
> dictatorial so-called "political correctness", and a relentless determination
> to eradicate the Christian foundations of these U.S. of A., pretty much keeps
> movies and TV programs with what might be perceived as a Christian slant off
> movie houses and television airings, and out of circulation.
> Nevertheless, the nearly 90% Christian population of the country will not be
> denied; not for long.
> And so,..... last Sunday the NY Times, an erstwhile responsible newspaper sadly
> metamorphosed into the clarion of political merchantability, published a tiny
> article about the Martin Sheen's movie "The Way" that will finally be released
> commercially here. Not surprisingly, the newspaper doesn't disclose the
> theatres where the movie will be shown. The "article" merely mentions that the
> movie will "open on Friday nationwide".
> Because these listservs, protectively, preclude attachments, a verbatim
> reproduction of the small piece reads:
>
> "One thing you quickly realize when you sit to watch "The Way": Martin Sheen is
> a very compelling actor. Another thing you realize more slowly as the film goes
> along: His oldest son, Emilio Estevez, is a very sensitive director.
> Mr. Estevez is both writer and director of this film, and also turns up in a
> small role, but he gives the spotlight to his father, who makes quite a lot out
> of a low-key story that could easily have degenerated into mush. Mr. Sheen
> plays an ophthalmologist named Tom whose only son, Daniel (Mr. Estevez) dies in
> severe weather in the Pyrenees while trying to walk the Way of Saint James (also
> known as the Camino de Santiago), a pilgrimage of hundreds of miles that ends in
> northwest Spain at a Cathedral where the Apostle James is said to be buried.
> Tom goes to retrieve his son's body and ends up walking the pilgrimage himself,
> scattering Daniel's ashes along the way. Mr Sheen gives a lovely performance as
> the no-nonsense doctor. and he gets wonderful support from actors playing fellow
> travelers who befriend Tom: Yorick van Wageningen as a verbose Dutchman,
> Deborah Kara Lingen as an acid-tongued woman trying to quit smoking, and James
> Nesbitt as an Irishman with writer's block.
> This is not an "inspirational" film in the usual, syrupy sense; none of these
> people are overtly finding God on this trek. The beauty of this movie, in fact,
> is that Mr Estevez does not make explicit what any of them find (sic) beyond
> friendship. He lets these four fine actors convey that true personal
> transformations are not announced with fanfare, but happen internally."
>
> Blessed and fortunate are we, Santiago pilgrims, who have lived the truth of
> the last sentence and know that the end of the Camino pilgrimage at the Santiago
> Cathedral is the beginning revealed.
>
> Hugs!
>
> Rosina
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sue Kenney<kenneysue at gmail.com>
> To: gocamino<gocamino at oakapple.net>
> Sent: Mon, Oct 10, 2011 8:39 pm
> Subject: [Gocamino] The Way the movie in Toronto
>
>
> Tomorrow, October 11 The Way the movie is screening in Toronto at the AMC at
> undas and Yonge. I'll be there. Here's the link.
> ttps://globerecognition.net/offers/view/505
>
> usan Regan Kenney
> nspirational Speaker. Coach. Pilgrim.
> uthor of Canadian best selling book My Camino
> ttp://www.suekenney.ca
> witter caminoperegrina
> 705 8264641
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