[Gocamino] abbreviated Camino and medical help...

Sat Jan 3 13:27:17 PST 2009

 Rosina, 
Your experience was very similar to mine the first time I needed services over in Spain.? I worried about the cleanliness of the clinic I was sent to since it was such an old building on the exterior.? Once inside, I found it remarkably modern and so clean one could practically eat off the floor.? I had insurance supplements and I too worried about what all of this would cost, fearing that the insurance would mark down a big bill and I would end up stuck with the rest.? But surprise, surprise, dirt cheap!? In my other post, I reported that it was so low (very similar to yours) that each time, I didn't bother to fill out the paperwork to get reimbursed.? I do use the insurance just in case we are stuck needing treatment for something serious and strongly recommend that everyone look into it.? Believe it or not, I did work for an employers at one time that gave us an insurance that covered us anywhere in the world at that time.? It was a PPO that they covered, a self-insured plan-- mighty good of them, but these days with benefits being offered less and less, I wonder if such a benefit is still offered anywhere!
Your brother's comments regarding lawyers and lawsuits-- he's right, they do contribute heavily to the cost of care over here.? I do medical malpractice reviews for attorneys.? All I can say is that I really wonder how it ever came about that we can get such stuff in the courts!? And the legal people have created such wastes of paper and time, all to protect the docs and other health care people from the other side.? We have forms to fill out and check that we have read the prior form which also required our signature.? In Europe, there is none of that.? I just had to present some form of identity (in my case a passport).? I signed a simple form authorizing treatment.? That was it.? In one case, I was needing to be medicated and my history, including whether or not I had any allergies, was asked while I was on the exam table.? 
Now I know that there are careless docs everywhere, here and over there.? So some lawsuits certainly have merit.? I wouldn't have cases to review if none had merit, but also there are many flaws presented in Michael Moore's movie, Sicko.? Your brother probably laughed hard at several spots in that movie!? I have European extended family who think Moore is telling the total truth since he presents each film as a "documentary."? We go round and round over Moore's movies!? Truth is that there are goods and bads in each system and the practitioners in each system are by and large good caring people.? And most health problems will be taken care of properly in either system.? 
Besides lawyers, another problem with our system is the administration side to things-- folks making multi-million dollars so cut corners and actually tell the docs what they can and can't do.? When money is saved, it lines that administrator's pocket!? And a third thing is personal responsibility-- their health care consumers do not overburden their sytem nearly as much with life-style disorders, i.e. all the type 2 diabetes from overeating and lack of exercise. That's changing over there, I'm told, so we'll see how much it changes their system. 
Well, I've gotten off the track here a bit, but always good to hear about your experiences, Rosina!
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!
-Joanie

-----Original Message-----
From: Rosina <blaroli at aol.com>
To: tim at errecaldia.com
Cc: GoCamino at oakapple.net; saintjames at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 12:18 pm
Subject: Re: [Gocamino] abbreviated Camino and medical help...

Hello you all,
Being accident-prone and generally careless health-wise, I've too often have had 
the opportunity to avail myself of medical care in Spain, and other European 
countries?and have found?it both admirable and?mind-boggling inexpensive.
Prior to going to the?closing of the Holy Door in 2004 I had been suffering from 
a very nasty bronchitis-like ailment that had been going on for?weeks. After 
seeing three doctors and having umpteen tests, at a cost of thousands of dollars 
to my insurance company, I was told that I was suffering from a peculiar 
bronchial infection that would take "a few weeks or months to clear up". I went 
to Santiago anyway and was so sick there, racked with coughing and downed with 
fever, that the people at the hotel insisted that I go to the "Urgencies" 
(emergency room) at a?city nearby clinic. This I was unwilling to do because of 
my horrid experiences waiting at the emergency room of my local, Saint 
Vincent's,?hospital in New York. At the Santiago clinic I had barely taken a 
seat when I was offered orange juice and coffee (espresso); in about 15 minutes 
I was seen and examined by two doctors, blood and x-rays were taken and I was 
given some?pills and liquid medicine; then I was taken to !
 a room (with a TV) to lie down and wait for the results of the 
medication.?Three or so hours later I was told that I had an infection but that 
if I took the medications prescribed I would be all right in a couple of 
days.?Checking out I kept wondering how much I would have to pay, and concerned 
about the bill because I did not have international health insurance.? Believe 
it or not, the entire bill was 32 Euros.?I then went to the pharmacy to fill the 
prescription for five different things, thinking that they would cost me a mint 
because, one way or another, I would have to pay for the extraordinary 
treatment. All the five medicines cost about 25 Euros.
I took them as prescribed (they were mostly liquid and tasted god-awful) and, 
sure enough, in three days I was right as rain.
When I got back to New York I screamed and hollered at my brother who is a 
physician. He calmly begged me to remember that U.S.?doctors and drug producers 
have to make a living, and he asked me whether I had ever heard of "planned 
obsolescence".
It would seem that since doctors in Spain, and medical personnel, are paid by 
the government the less long-lasting and/or complicated illnesses that they must 
deal with, the better for them.
To be fair, my brother also keeps insisting that lawyers and lawsuits are 
largely responsible?for the high cost of medical care in the U.S.
?Oh, well!
At any rate, because of?my own personal experience and that of my occasional 
companions,?I must extol?the excellence of medical care in Spain, Austria, 
Germany and Italy.
And, yes, if the doctors or nurses do not speak English they send straight away 
for a translator.
Hugs!
Rosina??

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim <tim at errecaldia.com>
To: Wes & Rita <wesrita at comcast.net>; Gocamino at oakapple.net
Sent: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 12:12 pm
Subject: Re: [Gocamino] abbreviated Camino and medical help...

Hi,
    I missed your original post, I must have been busy over the festive 
season and then saw the names.  I thought to myself that must be the 
people who stayed with me in September, went back, checked your original 
post saw that it was and hence this mail which has two purposes.  
Firstly to say that I'm glad 'all's well that ends well' and that there 
were to nasty ongoing repercussions.  The second purpose is to assure 
all of you from outside Europe especially the US and to a degree Canada 
that you are not entering a medical wilderness when you visit us in 
France or Spain.  Far from it, France is reputed to have one of the best 
medical systems in the world if not in fact the best, and Spain does not 
lag far behind.  Many of the practitioners speak English, treatment is 
easy to come by, the standards are very high, and it is much cheaper 
than the US
    An American friend who lives two doors away from me in St Jean Pied 
de Port explained to me that most US citizens have been brainwashed by 
the American medical establishment into believing that so called 
'socialist' medicine is primitive and doesn't work.  Please accept my 
assurances that this is just not the case, the flight home for Wes ended 
safely the next time it might not be such a happy outcome.
    I hope that you can call by and see me when you make your return 
this year, and would like to wish all Gocamino contributors Bonne Annee.
Regards
Tim Proctor

Wes & Rita wrote:

>Thanks for all the responses to our update on our medical emergency on the 
Camino.  Why did we not seek help in Spain?  Sheer panic.  Not knowing much 
Spanish and not knowing what was going on, all we could think about was getting 
home and seeing our own, much trusted, physician who had previously treated Wes 
for high blood pressure (my assumption at the time being that it had something 
to do with that).  Surely we would never have made a transatlantic flight if we 
had dreamed it might be what it turned out to be -- a pulmonary embolism.  If we 

were to fa
ce another medical problem while on the Camino (oh please, no, not 
again!), and knowing now what good experiences folks had in seeking medical help 

in Spain, we would definitely seek help wherever we were.  
>
>And thanks for all the information about wintry conditions in the high country 
in April.  We are moving our starting date into May as a result.  We were trying 

to avoid the crowds but crossing the Pyrennees in deep snow does not appeal!  I 
am grateful for all of you perigrinos who have been so helpful and supportive!
>
>Rita and Wes
>_______________________________________________
>Gocamino mailing list
>Gocamino at oakapple.net
>http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocamino
>
>  
>

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