pre-christian camino, etc.

[Sally Haden]

Hi Galen
And thanks for your whacking great long reply!  Muy interesante.

At the wrong time, however, as I can't think too much about it right now,
what with packing my bag for Donegal.

But, I have a Spanish friend who lives in Santiago who is very interested in
archaeology and early history, though he is not interested in the Camino.  I
will ask him if he knows of any factual sources.  He might.  So if he
does,which will be after "Hare Crismas" (I liked that!), I will indeed let
you know.
And I am quite glad you had no interesting in picking up any mystical
suggestions from me.  It is a curious area of knowledge.  There are
minefields and pitfalls.... well, no, perhaps the best description would be
bogs and murky wastelands.... when one doesn't remain alert and intelligent
on entering this sort of field of inquiry!!

But I will add that the reason I said that 'nature' could hold the
'knowledge' is not because I am suggesting some offbeat mystical inquiries.
I believe that 'nature' is a fund of logical, organised knowledge, and when
we do what you talk about - walk long distances in its environment - then we
can connect with it.  Okay I might have sounded like I was suggesting
talking to the trees or something like that, but I don't mean anything
whackey.  I mean..... Oh, what was it Glenn said, - I can't go back to what
he said about this, but it is something about (?) our deeper consciousness,
our inner mind, responding to or being in accord with, or coming into
relation with, the qualities of nature around us.  It's a bit nebulous but
.... okay, I will quit now and see if I can put it together for myself when
I walk in Ireland next week!

Sally


>Hi Sally,
>
>I think I see what you mean about accessibility to the logical, modern
>mind, and I do agree to some extent about that, that we can only see
>things that fit in our world-view, and are often blind to many things - an
>extension of "when you have a hammer, everything's a nail".
>Unfortunately, I am one of those who is turned off a little by things that
>are very openly mystical (though I love celtic music and movies such
>as "lord of the rings", so I'm a contradiction).  This could be my problem
>to some extent :)  Also, though, I am actually looking for real
>scholarship: anthropology, archaeology, etc.  I'm afraid I could
>easily "make up" feelings or "facts" about what it was like back then,
>which might be more based on romantic wishfulness on my part than actual
>fact.  I do think that "science" is subject to this blindness just as much
>as any other way of finding the "truth", but I am interested in so-called
>cold, hard facts as much as possible.  Then, speculation can be built on
>top of that, as long as it is acknowledged to be speculation.  I.e.
>something like:  we found these and these relics and symbols, etc. and
>these shoes and burial methods, and we can infer that this and this is
>what they believed, as a possibility based on this.  It's dry, but I tend
>to trust it more, partly _because_ it is "boring" and not dramatic.
>
>I do think that if one is trying to infer things about daily life in pre-
>historic (before writing) times, and for instance wondering what it was
>like to travel such a long distance on foot, it is valuable to actually do
>it, and to actually feel part of the landscape, so to speak, and go ahead
>and be a human being in those terms.  All of those who did the camino
>probably noticed a subtle but constant change in themselves as they
>traveled on foot such a long distance, something to do with the people
>around them, and with the actual concrete process of walking that far and
>long and being outdoors and in that place.  I think all of this experience
>is valuable for many things, and one of those things is trying to get in a
>mind-set to understand what it would be like to live in a more basic,
>less 'modern' way in northern spain and travel that distance.
>
>I'm guessing that when you say "the rocks along the way will still hold
>the knowledge", you don't mean it in the literal sense, or in a sense that
>I can sit down and have a conversation with them :), but in the sense that
>those rocks, trees, landscape, etc. is probably similar in many ways to
>what it has been like for hundreds, and maybe thousands of years, and we
>are all still basically the same human animal that has walked over that
>similar landscape, so we can probably get a similar experience, maybe
>emotionally, etc., and in this sense, we can 'communicate' with the rocks,
>etc.  I think there is a great value in this myself, too, although I think
>it should be taken together with "dry facts" as I said above.
>
>Maybe you would like to read "the brendan voyage" by Tim Severin, or his
>book about the Argo - (I forget the exact title, might even be "the
>argo" :)  Severin is a modern historian/adventurer, etc.  who researches
>ancient voyages, mostly ocean-going, and re-enacts the voyage using the
>technology of the time.  So, for the Brendan Voyage, he built the leather
>boat as closely as he could using the available information, using
>craftmanship available at the time, and actually sailed to Newfoundland
>from Ireland, via Iceland.  St. Brendan was an irishman who supposedly did
>this before Columbus.  Of course, you can read the books by Thor Heyerdahl
>too (Kon-tiki is the famous one, re-enacted a possible voyage from Peru to
>Tahiti by the possible ancestors of the Polynesians).
>
>Anyway, the point is, for me the connection to the past is interesting,
>and somehow important.  The other point is that through a combination of
>finding whatever evidence is available, _as_well_as_ personal experience,
>we can possibly find a personally and culturally important and meaningful
>connection to the past.   And somehow this all has a spiritual value on
>many levels, and can try to satisfy the 'modern analytical' mind as well
>as the 'spiritual mind' if you will.  You can also probably sell a heck of
>a lot of books if you do this. :) :), and maybe win writing awards for
>2500 euros!! :)
>
>So I think we agree. :)  Sorry I didn't respond earlier.
>
>Galen
>
>
>
>
>On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:38:16 +0000, Sally Haden <hadense1948aHOTMAIL.COM>
>wrote:
>
> >Hi Galen and all,
> >
> >>I am interested in knowing more about the early camino.  I've heard
>rumors
> >>that it had pre-christian roots, but would welcome soem substantial
>info.
> >>The more factual the better! :)
> >>Any sources - books, etc. backing up anyone's info would also be
>welcome.
> >>Maybe it is the part from Santiago to Finisterre that is thought to be
>pre-
> >>christian    gracias,
> >>Galen
> >
> >This is an interesting subject to me.... anyone got any info??
> >
> >Here are a few of my thoughts on the subject.
> >
> >It isn't easy to find substantial information about such things because
> >facts from times long-gone tend to become myth and not believed by modern
> >people; what there is is then even more easily mixed up with fantasy or
> >conjecture, madness and the plain silly.
> >
> >Also sometimes in these cases one has to approach the subject
>differently.
> >It would be excellent to get some substantial, factual information, yes -
> >excellent.  But also the subject shouldn't be approached with a modern
> >logical mind!  Part of the way we think today, which has come about with
>the
> >industrial revolution and the need to compartmentalise information and
> >become scientific and objective, precludes the kind of holistic,
>imaginative
> >and sensitive approach that would help in understanding what any
>such 'road'
> >might have consisted of.  "Knowledge" obtained in such a way is easily
> >ridiculed, even by our own logical mind.  It is a tender process.
> >
> >Galen, you have walked the Camino already.  So what does your experience
> >tell you?  Go and walk it again and see if you were right!
> >
> >If it is true that there is a pre-Christian, even prehistoric route there
>of
> >some sort, the rocks along the way will still hold the knowledge.  The
> >passage of humans on the earth is recorded in the book of records that
> >nature holds.  When we visit nature, we can peek into the book if we
>wish.
> >Facts from history and the records of men will help but they are only
>part
> >of the story.  They can be helpful as clues, but the knowledge is deeper
> >than that.  Not unavailable, just deeper.  And hidden to those who do not
> >take the right angle when they search.  Perhaps that sounds too mystical
>for
> >some. And I am not an expert at all.  But it does seem only sensible to
>me
> >that there is an abundance of knowledge on our planet which the great
> >majority of modern people just don't have a clue about because we live in
> >urban environments, caught up in the bind of machines, mortgages, and the
> >perceived need to be somewhere else in the next five minutes.
> >
> >Okay, so I don't know where all that (which I just wrote) came from!
>Maybe
> >I should apply it in my upcoming ten days in Donegal!  I have heard there
> >are some old 'roadways' in Donegal which used to be trod as part of a
> >circular pilgrimage there.
> >
> >Sally
> >
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