[Gocamino] Wise pilgrim

Daniel De Kay dandekay at sbcglobal.net
Wed Jul 31 21:04:53 PDT 2013 

Yep, agreed.... if you all want to have a personal discussion then please do so personally, not on our time...

On Jul 31, 2013, at 1:03 PM, Jurgen Forster wrote:

> Hi all,
> Could you guys stop this intellectual diarrhea and go back what this forum
> is about: give the newbie's advise.
> Maybe the prayer of La Faba could help you to understand.
> Regards,
> Jurgen Forster
> 
> 
>> Quote:  "This is a forum for pilgrims. People on a journey or search of
> moral
>> or spiritual significance."
> 
> If you were the Forum owner or moderator would
>> you exclude those who don't
> qualify for the above?
> 
> On 31 July 2013 19:37,
>> <cwlowery at pga.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> This is a good example of a false idea being
>> postulated, and a discussion
>> ensuing as to its degree of rightness. Without
>> anyone saying, " This is
>> false".
>> 
>> No, not well said.
>> 
>> Like calling
>> something blue, red, and discussing the quality of it's
>> redness. We have
>> words in order to distinguish things.
>> 
>> PILGRIMAGE- A journey or search of
>> moral or spiritual significance.
>> 
>> So what is the elephant in the room? Who
>> said the emperor has no clothes?
>> I do.
>> 
>> The curious hikers you speak are
>> not being discussed here. This is a forum
>> for pilgrims. People on a journey
>> or search of moral or spiritual
>> significance.
>> 
>> See the subject you type
>> under? WISE PILGRIM
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Joanie Hess"
>> <jethess777 at aol.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:45am
>> To:
>> cwlowery at pga.com, richard at fergusonsculpture.com
>> Cc: gocamino at oakapple.net,
>> santiagobis at yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Re: [Gocamino] Wise pilgrim
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Well said!
>> I think the discussion, while noteworthy initially, has been run
>> into the
>> ground.  By now, most everyone is in one of two camps-- those that
>> want
>> such a gadget and those who don't.  I find the continuation of a
>> discussion
>> of why one would or wouldn't a bit like those striving to convert
>> others to
>> their way of thought (and the purpose behind it being the
>> dissatisfaction
>> that 100% of the folks don't think so in either
>> direction).
>> At least lodging, what to pack, airline flights, new products
>> that might
>> be useful to today's pilgrim --  all the result of improved
>> technology,
>> BTW--  keeps changing to the point where it is necessary to be
>> alerted to
>> such so that can make a pilgrimage happen.
>> 
>> Just my
>> thoughts...
>> Joanie
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
>> cwlowery at pga.com
>> To: Richard Ferguson
>> Cc: †GoCamino OakApple ; Santiagobis
>> Camino
>> Sent: Wed, Jul 31, 2013 1:17 am
>> Subject: Re: [Gocamino] Wise
>> pilgrim
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Yes Richard, it does seem natural that a person embarking on a
>> long walk
>> in order to develop a clearer understanding of the ancient meaning
>> of life
>> would have some reservation about carrying these gadgets. And
>> further, for
>> these gadgets to become a topic on a forum such as this seems
>> odd. And
>> further, for these gadgets these folks speak of, to become the
>> primary
>> focus of a forum such as this, one dedicated to the pilgrim in all
>> of us
>> seems ridiculous to an experienced pilgrim, say from 1300's. We all
>> have a
>> tendency to be easily led, to accept as valid a notion brought forth
>> by
>> someone. I speak up to shake this conversation into the idea that these
>> 
>> gadgets, invented and marketed by slick salesman, have nothing to do with a
>> 
>> pilgrimage, and the idea that they do is ridiculous. Or something else.
>> 
>> Maybe evidence that the best intended souls, men and women who engage this
>> 
>> forum, sharing their deep memories and epiphanies of the way, people who
>> are
>> educated, wisened, successful, have been taken in, like their children,
>> by
>> these salesmen and their gadgets,  selling their wears to anyone who can
>> buy
>> them. Its just a different perspective -----Original Message-----From:
>> 
>> "Richard Ferguson" <[mailto:richard at fergusonsculpture.com]
>> 
>> richard at fergusonsculpture.com>Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 1:40amTo:
>> 
>> [mailto:cwlowery at pga.com] cwlowery at pga.comCc: "Sil" <[mailto:
>> 
>> sillydoll at gmail.com] sillydoll at gmail.com>, "†GoCamino OakApple" <[mailto:
>> 
>> gocamino at oakapple.net] gocamino at oakapple.net>, "Santiagobis Camino"
>> 
>> <[mailto:santiagobis at yahoogroups.com] santiagobis at yahoogroups.com>Subject:
>> 
>> Re: Wise pilgrimAs a late adopter of smartphones, I just returned from my>
>> first overseas trip during which I had a smartphone with a working internet
>> 
>> connection.   It did change the trip.  Sometimes I used it for navigation,
>> 
>> other times for email, translation, Facebook, or just plain looking up
>> 
>> things.  I did blog the trip, but with a laptop, not a smartphone.  I used
>> 
>> the smartphone multiple times a day.But I am having some second thoughts
>> 
>> about doing a camino with all of that technology.  Certainly walking with a
>> 
>> GPS is a different experience than reading a map and asking for directions.
>> 
>> Yet I would like to be able to email, or call home, or just call for a
>> 
>> reservation.    I suppose that I could leave my phone turned off until I
>> 
>> have a real need for it. Or not buy a data plan, and only have internet
>> 
>> access where I have WIFI. I think that part of my hesitation is that for
>> me,
>> asking for directions was an important part of my experience when I
>> walked
>> before.  Also, computers are a big part of my daily life, and if I
>> carry my
>> smartphone, that is like a continuation of my regular life.  Maybe
>> I think
>> that a pilgrimage should be a significant break with my regular
>> life,
>> stripping it down to the essentials.......Last time I walked I had an
>> email
>> list, and emailed a report when I could, which kept family and
>> friends
>> informed.  To some extent, writing down your experiences, in a
>> notebook or
>> on a computer, has value, in terms of forcing you to think
>> through and
>> describe your experience.   I was thinking that a smartphone
>> could let me
>> write and email or blog my experiences.Decisions,
>> decisions......  I am
>> currently planning to walk in March-April, probably
>> from somewhere in France
>> to Pamplona, so I am starting to focus more on
>> pilgrimage.RichardOn Jul 21,
>> 2013, at 2:13 PM, [mailto:cwlowery at pga.com]
>> cwlowery at pga.com wrote:> > Thank
>> you for the responses gentlemen. I do
>> feel blessed to have walked with
>> nothing save a very small amount of food
>> and water. And to walk in Silence.>
>> I feel blessed to not even be able to
>> remotely understand how someone could
>> make pilgrimage and try to carry so
>> much. It seems so contradictory to me.>
>>> Jesus said judge not, lest. Yes,
>> this I understand. And I am happy for
>> anyone who finds their way, using
>> whatever means they choose.> > But for me,
>> when asked by his disciples
>> where will we sleep, He said, Consider the
>> birds. Find Peace here.> > When
>> asked by his disciples, "What will we eat?"
>> Buddha said the Lord will
>> provide.> > I believe these are important lessons
>> they were teaching.  A
>> pilgrimage can be a singular chance in one's life to
>> leave the inventions
>> of entrepeneurs and slick salesmen behind. Yes it is
>> possible.> >
>> -----Original Message-----> From: "Sil"
>> <[mailto:sillydoll at gmail.com]
>> sillydoll at gmail.com>> Sent: Sunday, July 21,
>> 2013 10:17am> To: [mailto:
>> saintjames at yahoogroups.com]
>> saintjames at yahoogroups.com> Cc: [mailto:
>> cwlowery at pga.com] cwlowery at pga.com,
>> [mailto:santiagobis at yahoogroups.com]
>> santiagobis at yahoogroups.com,
>> [mailto:gocamino at oakapple.net]
>> gocamino at oakapple.net> Subject: Re:
>> [saintjames] Re: [Gocamino] Wise
>> pilgrim> > > > To add to Bob's list, we now
>> have shirts that wick-away the
>> sweat. Gortex shoes.  Telescopic walking
>> poles. Sunglasses.  Motor cars,
>> trains, buses.  Telephones, email, Internet.
>> Elevators and escalators.>
>> And, we'd have to do without café-con-leche
>> (coffee was only introduced in
>> Europe in the 17thc) no tomatoes for those
>> salsas, no patata tortiallas
>> (potatoes were also only introduced in the 18th
>> c) and many other delicious
>> things we take for granted.  No - its not
>> possible to replicate the
>> medieval experience and every generation adds new
>> technology to the walking
>> pilgrim.> > > On 21 July 2013 15:51, Robert
>> Spenger <[[mailto:
>> rspenger at earthlink.net?] mailto:rspenger at earthlink.net]
>> [mailto:
>> rspenger at earthlink.net] rspenger at earthlink.net> wrote:> Devices -
>> like
>> trans-atlantic jet planes? Albergues, not only with running water,
>> but
>> often heated? Like lightweight packs and well made walking shoes?
>> Credit
>> cards and paper money instead of heavy coins? The list goes on and
>> on. It
>> is not the same world; it is not possible to have the same experience
>> as a
>> medieval pilgrim. Nor is it likely that anyone on this forum has
>> 
>> experienced the kind of life that the medieval folks lived just staying at
>> 
>> home.> > I have done several caminos without mobile electronic devices
>> 
>> except for cameras. Now that I have an iPad mini (obviously not a necessity
>> 
>> - just a fun toy) I would like to find out just how much I can do with it.
>> 
>> It is a challenge, just like walking the camino in my 80s. Come to think of
>> 
>> it, in the old days I would have been lucky to have made it to half that
>> 
>> age. A couple of other devices come to mind. Corrective lenses have been
>> 
>> around for a couple of centuries at least, but certainly not available for
>> 
>> the 12th century pilgrim. Many modern folks would find it very difficult to
>> 
>> get by without their glasses. I manage to get lost even with them. Also, in
>> 
>> my own case, porcine tissue aortic valves were just a dream much less than
>> a
>> century ago. Now there is an indispensable device for me at least. it is
>> not
>> electronic, but replacement heart valves were developed just about the
>> same
>> time that the transistor was.> > Bob S.> > > > On Jul 20, 2013, at
>> 9:27 PM,
>> [[mailto:cwlowery at pga.com?] mailto:cwlowery at pga.com] [mailto:
>> 
>> cwlowery at pga.com] cwlowery at pga.com wrote:> > Imagine when people walked
>> this
>> way without these devices you speak of. Can you? If so, do you feel
>> that
>> they have a different experience to yours? Imagine thousands of years
>> ago.
>> Tap away> > -----Original Message-----> From: "Robert Spenger"
>> 
>> <[[mailto:rspenger at earthlink.net?] mailto:rspenger at earthlink.net] [mailto:
>> 
>> rspenger at earthlink.net] rspenger at earthlink.net>> Sent: Thursday, July 18,>
>> 2013 7:29pm> To: [[mailto:Santiagobis at yahoogroups.com?] mailto:
>> 
>> Santiagobis at yahoogroups.com] [mailto:Santiagobis at yahoogroups.com]
>> 
>> Santiagobis at yahoogroups.com, "Saint James †Yahoo" <[[mailto:
>> 
>> saintjames at yahoogroups.com?] mailto:saintjames at yahoogroups.com] [mailto:
>> 
>> saintjames at yahoogroups.com] saintjames at yahoogroups.com>, [[mailto:
>> 
>> gocamino at oakapple.net?] mailto:gocamino at oakapple.net] [mailto:
>> 
>> gocamino at oakapple.net] gocamino at oakapple.net> Subject: [Gocamino] Wise
>> 
>> pilgrim> > Well, I have overcome one major road block (camino block?). I
>> 
>> kept getting the elevation plot for the first stage when I tapped on
>> various
>> arrows. I finally found out that scrolling down that page reveals
>> the
>> promised information. I have not found any directions in the
>> application
>> that indicate this procedure. Not very intuitive I might say.
>> Or am I just
>> too dense?> > Bob S.> > > Sent from my iPad mini>
>> 
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