[Gocamino] Wise pilgrim

Wed Jul 31 16:51:06 PDT 2013

I know that it is not that way for many people, but for me, pilgrimage is a religious activity.  In the case of Santiago de Compostella, it is for many people, a Christian religious activity.  I don't mean to denigrate those who walk for spiritual or other reasons.  

Let me compare the pilgrimage to another, and perhaps similar, religious activity, a retreat.  In a retreat, one would not be talking on one's cell phone, or checking their email every few minutes, or listening to popular music.  One would be primarily praying, thinking, and reading.   Does that mean that somebody on retreat never checks their voicemail or email?  Probably they do check their voicemail and email from time to time, but not every 15 minutes.

Whether or not your own pilgrimage is religious in nature, I think that for many people, the Camino a Santiago is spiritual in nature.  Maybe your pilgrimage is more like a retreat than you think.  Or maybe your real goal is to take a break from your regular life and think, again kind of like a retreat.

This article discusses cell phone and internet use during retreats.  The author says, " I couldn’t properly retreat and bring the internet with me."  That would probably apply to me as well, as kind of an internet addict.   http://www.challies.com/christian-living/retreat

Putting this into the context of a Buddhist retreat, I quote the following from "Retreat Etiquette".  "Cell phones are not permitted in the meditation hall. Cell phone use should be strictly limited during the retreat. If you need to make or receive an important call, please do so out of the sight and sound of the other retreatants." http://www.wondharmacenter.org/v3/programs/retreat-programs/149-retreat-etiquette

>From another Buddhist retreat center:   "retreatants are asked not to use mobile phones, laptops or ipods during retreats. We provide safe facilities where these and other valuables are left for the duration of the retreat."

For me, the pilgrimage to Santiago is getting away from my regular life, doing something completely different, taking on a challenge, being a long way from home, even speaking a different language.    I am thinking now that maybe I can't go on retreat/pilgrimage if I have my phone turned on in my pocket.

Grant makes a good point, that pay phones and internet cafes are becoming things of the past, such that a mobile phone and some kind of internet device may in fact be necessary, if only to reserve a place to stay, or keep the family at home happy and informed.  Maybe I need to bury my phone in my pack, and only get it out once a day, or if I have a genuine urgent need.

My two cents,
Richard

On Jul 31, 2013, at 5:15 PM, cwlowery at pga.com wrote:

> 
> 
> Truth is important. Jesus was a Jewish rabbi. Since the way of santiago is christian pilgrimage, lets make the analogy of a synagogue in Jerusalem. If you brought your smart phone in, and began to use it, talking, playing music, texting, you would be asked to leave. For a pilgrim, the way is a synagogue, a sanctuary. Is a movie theater which disallows cell phones more sacred than a pilgrimage.
> 
> Bob, you mention me, and all my support. To whom are you referring? Noone has stated their support for my views.
> 
> It is fine for world travelers, thrill seekers, people out to meet their soul mate, people looking for a cheap vacation, comedians looking to write a book, fine for all of us, when we are doing these activities to hang on to the trappings of our every day life, texting, talking incessantly, always somewhere else than where we are. I've seen them all on The Way. Jesus taught love and non judgement, so they are part of the challenge of The Way. Those who get in the way.
> 
> They are not on a pilgrimage. Something else.
> 
> When we make a pilgrimage, the intention is to leave these things behind.
> 
> BTW, I just made $6000.00 on Nasdaq by investing in a small start up company that makes high tech gadgets and has a very slick salesman as ceo. Thank you Morty. I sold at 3PM.
> 
> I include this to make clear I am not anti tech. I'm writing on a computer now.
> 
> But there is a place where things are appropriate and not so much.
> 
> If we write as a wise pilgrim, which we all are doing, it suggests that we are making a Christian journey of spiritual significance.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Sil" <sillydoll at gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 3:06pm
> To: cwlowery at pga.com
> Cc: "Joanie Hess" <jethess777 at aol.com>, gocamino at oakapple.net, santiagobis at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Gocamino] Wise pilgrim
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:  "This is a forum for pilgrims. People on a journey or search of moral or spiritual significance."
> If you were the Forum owner or moderator would you exclude those who don't qualify for the above?  
> 
> 
> On 31 July 2013 19:37,  <[mailto:cwlowery at pga.com] cwlowery at pga.com> wrote:
> 
> This is a good example of a false idea being postulated, and a discussion ensuing as to its degree of rightness. Without anyone saying, " This is false".
> 
> No, not well said.
> 
> Like calling something blue, red, and discussing the quality of it's redness. We have words in order to distinguish things.
> 
> PILGRIMAGE- A journey or search of moral or spiritual significance.
> 
> So what is the elephant in the room? Who said the emperor has no clothes? I do.
> 
> The curious hikers you speak are not being discussed here. This is a forum for pilgrims. People on a journey or search of moral or spiritual significance.
> 
> See the subject you type under? WISE PILGRIM
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Joanie Hess" <[mailto:jethess777 at aol.com] jethess777 at aol.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:45am
> To: [mailto:cwlowery at pga.com] cwlowery at pga.com, [mailto:richard at fergusonsculpture.com] richard at fergusonsculpture.com
> Cc: [mailto:gocamino at oakapple.net] gocamino at oakapple.net, [mailto:santiagobis at yahoogroups.com] santiagobis at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Re: [Gocamino] Wise pilgrim
> 
> 
> 
> Well said!
> I think the discussion, while noteworthy initially, has been run into the ground.  By now, most everyone is in one of two camps-- those that want such a gadget and those who don't.  I find the continuation of a discussion of why one would or wouldn't a bit like those striving to convert others to their way of thought (and the purpose behind it being the dissatisfaction that 100% of the folks don't think so in either direction).
> At least lodging, what to pack, airline flights, new products that might be useful to today's pilgrim --  all the result of improved technology, BTW--  keeps changing to the point where it is necessary to be alerted to such so that can make a pilgrimage happen.
> 
> Just my thoughts...
> Joanie
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [mailto:cwlowery at pga.com] cwlowery at pga.com
> To: Richard Ferguson
> Cc: †GoCamino OakApple ; Santiagobis Camino
> Sent: Wed, Jul 31, 2013 1:17 am
> Subject: Re: [Gocamino] Wise pilgrim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes Richard, it does seem natural that a person embarking on a long walk in order to develop a clearer understanding of the ancient meaning of life would have some reservation about carrying these gadgets. And further, for these gadgets to become a topic on a forum such as this seems odd. And further, for these gadgets these folks speak of, to become the primary focus of a forum such as this, one dedicated to the pilgrim in all of us seems ridiculous to an experienced pilgrim, say from 1300's. We all have a tendency to be easily led, to accept as valid a notion brought forth by someone. I speak up to shake this conversation into the idea that these gadgets, invented and marketed by slick salesman, have nothing to do with a pilgrimage, and the idea that they do is ridiculous. Or something else. Maybe evidence that the best intended souls, men and women who engage this forum, sharing their deep memories and epiphanies of the way, people who are educated, wisened, successful, have been taken in, like their children, by these salesmen and their gadgets,  selling their wears to anyone who can buy them. Its just a different perspective -----Original Message-----From: "Richard Ferguson" <[mailto:[mailto:richard at fergusonsculpture.com] richard at fergusonsculpture.com] [mailto:richard at fergusonsculpture.com] richard at fergusonsculpture.com>Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 1:40amTo: [mailto:[mailto:cwlowery at pga.com] cwlowery at pga.com] cwlowery at pga.comCc: "Sil" <[mailto:[mailto:sillydoll at gmail.com] sillydoll at gmail.com] [mailto:sillydoll at gmail.com] sillydoll at gmail.com>, "†GoCamino OakApple" <[mailto:[mailto:gocamino at oakapple.net] gocamino at oakapple.net] [mailto:gocamino at oakapple.net] gocamino at oakapple.net>, "Santiagobis Camino" <[mailto:[mailto:santiagobis at yahoogroups.com] santiagobis at yahoogroups.com] [mailto:santiagobis at yahoogroups.com] santiagobis at yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: Wise pilgrimAs a late adopter of smartphones, I just returned from my first overseas trip during which I had a smartphone with a working internet connection.   It did change the trip.  Sometimes I used it for navigation, other times for email, translation, Facebook, or just plain looking up things.  I did blog the trip, but with a laptop, not a smartphone.  I used the smartphone multiple times a day.But I am having some second thoughts about doing a camino with all of that technology.  Certainly walking with a GPS is a different experience than reading a map and asking for directions.   Yet I would like to be able to email, or call home, or just call for a reservation.    I suppose that I could leave my phone turned off until I have a real need for it. Or not buy a data plan, and only have internet access where I have WIFI. I think that part of my hesitation is that for me, asking for directions was an important part of my experience when I walked before.  Also, computers are a big part of my daily life, and if I carry my smartphone, that is like a continuation of my regular life.  Maybe I think that a pilgrimage should be a significant break with my regular life, stripping it down to the essentials.......Last time I walked I had an email list, and emailed a report when I could, which kept family and friends informed.  To some extent, writing down your experiences, in a notebook or on a computer, has value, in terms of forcing you to think through and describe your experience.   I was thinking that a smartphone could let me write and email or blog my experiences.Decisions, decisions......  I am currently planning to walk in March-April, probably from somewhere in France to Pamplona, so I am starting to focus more on pilgrimage.RichardOn Jul 21, 2013, at 2:13 PM, [mailto:[mailto:cwlowery at pga.com] cwlowery at pga.com] [mailto:cwlowery at pga.com] cwlowery at pga.com wrote:> > Thank you for the responses gentlemen. I do feel blessed to have walked with nothing save a very small amount of food and water. And to walk in Silence.> I feel blessed to not even be able to remotely understand how someone could make pilgrimage and try to carry so much. It seems so contradictory to me.> > Jesus said judge not, lest. Yes, this I understand. And I am happy for anyone who finds their way, using whatever means they choose.> > But for me, when asked by his disciples where will we sleep, He said, Consider the birds. Find Peace here.> > When asked by his disciples, "What will we eat?" Buddha said the Lord will provide.> > I believe these are important lessons they were teaching.  A pilgrimage can be a singular chance in one's life to leave the inventions of entrepeneurs and slick salesmen behind. Yes it is possible.> > -----Original Message-----> From: "Sil" <[mailto:[mailto:sillydoll at gmail.com] sillydoll at gmail.com] [mailto:sillydoll at gmail.com] sillydoll at gmail.com>> Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 10:17am> To: [mailto:[mailto:saintjames at yahoogroups.com] saintjames at yahoogroups.com] [mailto:saintjames at yahoogroups.com] saintjames at yahoogroups.com> Cc: [mailto:[mailto:cwlowery at pga.com] cwlowery at pga.com] [mailto:cwlowery at pga.com] cwlowery at pga.com, [mailto:[mailto:santiagobis at yahoogroups.com] santiagobis at yahoogroups.com] [mailto:santiagobis at yahoogroups.com] santiagobis at yahoogroups.com, [mailto:[mailto:gocamino at oakapple.net] gocamino at oakapple.net] [mailto:gocamino at oakapple.net] gocamino at oakapple.net> Subject: Re: [saintjames] Re: [Gocamino] Wise pilgrim> > > > To add to Bob's list, we now have shirts that wick-away the sweat. Gortex shoes.  Telescopic walking poles. Sunglasses.  Motor cars, trains, buses.  Telephones, email, Internet.  Elevators and escalators.> And, we'd have to do without café-con-leche (coffee was only introduced in Europe in the 17thc) no tomatoes for those salsas, no patata tortiallas (potatoes were also only introduced in the 18th c) and many other delicious things we take for granted.  No - its not possible to replicate the medieval experience and every generation adds new technology to the walking pilgrim.> > > On 21 July 2013 15:51, Robert Spenger <[[mailto:[mailto:rspenger at earthlink.net] rspenger at earthlink.net?] mailto:[mailto:rspenger at earthlink.net] rspenger at earthlink.net] [mailto:[mailto:rspenger at earthlink.net] rspenger at earthlink.net] [mailto:rspenger at earthlink.net] rspenger at earthlink.net> wrote:> Devices - like trans-atlantic jet planes? Albergues, not only with running water, but often heated? Like lightweight packs and well made walking shoes? Credit cards and paper money instead of heavy coins? The list goes on and on. It is not the same world; it is not possible to have the same experience as a medieval pilgrim. Nor is it likely that anyone on this forum has experienced the kind of life that the medieval folks lived just staying at home.> > I have done several caminos without mobile electronic devices except for cameras. Now that I have an iPad mini (obviously not a necessity - just a fun toy) I would like to find out just how much I can do with it. It is a challenge, just like walking the camino in my 80s. Come to think of it, in the old days I would have been lucky to have made it to half that age. A couple of other devices come to mind. Corrective lenses have been around for a couple of centuries at least, but certainly not available for the 12th century pilgrim. Many modern folks would find it very difficult to get by without their glasses. I manage to get lost even with them. Also, in my own case, porcine tissue aortic valves were just a dream much less than a century ago. Now there is an indispensable device for me at least. it is not  electronic, but replacement heart valves were developed just about the same time that the transistor was.> > Bob S.> > > > On Jul 20, 2013, at 9:27 PM, [[mailto:[mailto:cwlowery at pga.com] cwlowery at pga.com?] mailto:[mailto:cwlowery at pga.com] cwlowery at pga.com] [mailto:[mailto:cwlowery at pga.com] cwlowery at pga.com] [mailto:cwlowery at pga.com] cwlowery at pga.com wrote:> > Imagine when people walked this way without these devices you speak of. Can you? If so, do you feel that they have a different experience to yours? Imagine thousands of years ago. Tap away> > -----Original Message-----> From: "Robert Spenger" <[[mailto:[mailto:rspenger at earthlink.net] rspenger at earthlink.net?] mailto:[mailto:rspenger at earthlink.net] rspenger at earthlink.net] [mailto:[mailto:rspenger at earthlink.net] rspenger at earthlink.net] [mailto:rspenger at earthlink.net] rspenger at earthlink.net>> Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 7:29pm> To: [[mailto:[mailto:Santiagobis at yahoogroups.com] Santiagobis at yahoogroups.com?] mailto:[mailto:Santiagobis at yahoogroups.com] Santiagobis at yahoogroups.com] [mailto:[mailto:Santiagobis at yahoogroups.com] Santiagobis at yahoogroups.com] [mailto:Santiagobis at yahoogroups.com] Santiagobis at yahoogroups.com, "Saint James †Yahoo" <[[mailto:[mailto:saintjames at yahoogroups.com] saintjames at yahoogroups.com?] mailto:[mailto:saintjames at yahoogroups.com] saintjames at yahoogroups.com] [mailto:[mailto:saintjames at yahoogroups.com] saintjames at yahoogroups.com] [mailto:saintjames at yahoogroups.com] saintjames at yahoogroups.com>, [[mailto:[mailto:gocamino at oakapple.net] gocamino at oakapple.net?] mailto:[mailto:gocamino at oakapple.net] gocamino at oakapple.net] [mailto:[mailto:gocamino at oakapple.net] gocamino at oakapple.net] [mailto:gocamino at oakapple.net] gocamino at oakapple.net> Subject: [Gocamino] Wise pilgrim> > Well, I have overcome one major road block (camino block?). I kept getting the elevation plot for the first stage when I tapped on various arrows. I finally found out that scrolling down that page reveals the promised information. I have not found any directions in the application that indicate this procedure. Not very intuitive I might say. Or am I just too dense?> > Bob S.> > > Sent from my iPad mini> _______________________________________________> Gocamino mailing list> [[mailto:[mailto:Gocamino at oakapple.net] Gocamino at oakapple.net?] mailto:[mailto:Gocamino at oakapple.net] Gocamino at oakapple.net] [mailto:[mailto:Gocamino at oakapple.net] Gocamino at oakapple.net] [mailto:Gocamino at oakapple.net] Gocamino at oakapple.net> [[[http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocamino] http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocamino] [http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocamino] http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocamino] [[http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocamino] http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocamino] [http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocamino] http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocamino> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> > > > ------------------------------------> > This Group is based in the site: [[[http://www.caminhodesantiago.com] http://www.caminhodesantiago.com] [http://www.caminhodesantiago.com] http://www.caminhodesantiago.com] [[http://www.caminhodesantiago.com] http://www.caminhodesantiago.com] [http://www.caminhodesantiago.com] http://www.caminhodesantiago.com - Caminho de Santiago de Compostela - O Portal Peregrino. All of information the pilgrims need.Yahoo! Groups Links> > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:> [[[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/] [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/] [[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/] [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/> > <*> Your email settings:> Individual Email | Traditional> > <*> To change settings online go to:> [[[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/join] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/join] [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/join] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/join] [[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/join] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/join] [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/join] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjames/join> (Yahoo! ID required)> > <*> To change settings via email:> [[mailto:[mailto:saintjames-digest at yahoogroups.com] saintjames-digest at yahoogroups.com?] mailto:[mailto:saintjames-digest at yahoogroups.com] saintjames-digest at yahoogroups.com] [mailto:[mailto:saintjames-digest at yahoogroups.com] saintjames-digest at yahoogroups.com] [mailto:saintjames-digest at yahoogroups.com] saintjames-digest at yahoogroups.com> [[mailto:[mailto:saintjames-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com] saintjames-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com?] mailto:[mailto:saintjames-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com] saintjames-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com] [mailto:[mailto:saintjames-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com] saintjames-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com] [mailto:saintjames-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com] saintjames-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com> > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:> [[mailto:[mailto:saintjames-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com] saintjames-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com?] mailto:[mailto:saintjames-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com] saintjames-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com] [mailto:[mailto:saintjames-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com] saintjames-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com] [mailto:saintjames-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com] saintjames-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com> > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:> [[[http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/] [http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/] [[http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/] [http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > > > > -- > > Sil> [[https://www.amazon.com/author/amawalker] https://www.amazon.com/author/amawalker] [https://www.amazon.com/author/amawalker] https://www.amazon.com/author/amawalker> [[[http://www.amawalkerscamino.com] http://www.amawalkerscamino.com] [http://www.amawalkerscamino.com] http://www.amawalkerscamino.com] [[http://www.amawalkerscamino.com] http://www.amawalkerscamino.com] [http://www.amawalkerscamino.com] www.amawalkerscamino.com> [[[http://www.amawalker.blogspot.com] http://www.amawalker.blogspot.com] [http://www.amawalker.blogspot.com] http://www.amawalker.blogspot.com] [[http://www.amawalker.blogspot.com] http://www.amawalker.blogspot.com] [http://www.amawalker.blogspot.com] www.amawalker.blogspot.com> _______________________________________________> Gocamino mailing list> [mailto:[mailto:Gocamino at oakapple.net] Gocamino at oakapple.net] [mailto:Gocamino at oakapple.net] Gocamino at oakapple.net> [[http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocamino] http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocamino] [http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocaminoSculptures] http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocaminoSculptures in copper and other metals[[http://www.fergusonsculpture.com] http://www.fergusonsculpture.com] www.fergusonsculpture.com_______________________________________________Gocamino mailing list[mailto:[mailto:Gocamino at oakapple.net] Gocamino at oakapple.net] [mailto:Gocamino at oakapple.net] Gocamino at oakapple.net[[http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocamino] http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocamino] [http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocamino] http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocamino
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Gocamino mailing list
> [mailto:Gocamino at oakapple.net] Gocamino at oakapple.net
> [http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocamino] http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocamino
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Sil
> https://www.amazon.com/author/amawalker
> [http://www.amawalkerscamino.com] www.amawalkerscamino.com
> [http://www.amawalker.blogspot.com] www.amawalker.blogspot.com
> _______________________________________________
> Gocamino mailing list
> Gocamino at oakapple.net
> http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/gocamino

Sculptures in copper and other metals
www.fergusonsculpture.com