<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">The addition for (informative) Annex J is intended to be an implication of what is already in 6.6.1 #5. It, per se, shouldn't have any effect on what users can safely do.<div><br></div><div><div>I think Joseph’s idea to change the “shall be” to “is” in 6.6.1 #5 (and not add anything to Annex J) is reasonable. This suggests a broader effort to eliminate all uses of “shall” and “shall not” that apply to implementations instead of users. Rajan, did you say that effort was in progress?</div><div><br></div><div>- Jim Thomas</div><div><br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Mar 12, 2025, at 9:49 AM, RAJAN BHAKTA <rbhakta@us.ibm.com> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset="UTF-8"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">In case people are not on the WG14 reflector.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(33, 33, 33);">Regards,<br><br><b>Rajan Bhakta</b></span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(33, 33, 33);"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container"><div><div><div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) currentcolor currentcolor; border-image: none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 12pt;">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt;">owner-sc22wg14@open-std.org <owner-sc22wg14@open-std.org> on behalf of Joseph Myers <josmyers@redhat.com><br><b>Date:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Wednesday, March 12, 2025 at 11:40</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt;">AM<br><b>To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>RAJAN BHAKTA <rbhakta@us.ibm.com><br><b>Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>ISO C <sc22wg14@open-std.org><br><b>Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>[EXTERNAL] [SC22WG14.29686] WG14 2025/02 meeting action item: CFP to look at N3447's change 3.2, addition 50'<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">On Wed, 12 Mar 2025, RAJAN BHAKTA wrote:<br><br>> We suggest using the following wording instead:<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> (50’) A floating expression is evaluated in the translation environment<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> with less arithmetic range or precision than if the expression were<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> being evaluated in the execution environment.<br><br>The effect of that would seem to be that no program can safely use<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>floating-point expressions in constant expressions at all, in case the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>implementation chooses to evaluate with less range or precision and so<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>give them undefined behavior.<br><br>I think we need a demons or ghosts paper to replace this "shall be" (in<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>6.6.1) by "is" (or some similar change), since if there is UB here, there<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>should not be; the implementation should not be permitted to use less<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>range or precision in the translation environment.<br><br>--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Joseph S. Myers<br>josmyers@redhat.com<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">cfp-interest mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><a href="mailto:cfp-interest@oakapple.net" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">cfp-interest@oakapple.net</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><a href="http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/cfp-interest" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">http://mailman.oakapple.net/mailman/listinfo/cfp-interest</a></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>