<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,0)"><Please return comments to <a href="mailto:jcoonen@gmail.com">jcoonen@gmail.com</a> or all CFP by Friday 27 September.></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal">2024/09/18: 8 AM PDT</p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>Attendees</b>: Rajan, Jim, Jerome, Fred, Damian, David, Joshua</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>New agenda items</b> (<a href="https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/CFP%20meeting%20agenda-20240918-update.pdf" target="_blank">https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/CFP%20meeting%20agenda-20240918-update.pdf</a>):</p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> </b>SIGFPE paper from Fred</p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>Previous meeting notes:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> See(<a href="http://%5BCfp-interest%203253%5D%20JTC1/SC22/WG14/CFP%202024/08/14%20Meeting%20minutes%20--%20v.%202" target="_blank">[Cfp-interest 3253] JTC1/SC22/WG14/CFP 2024/08/14 Meeting minutes -- v. 2</a>).</p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>Next Meeting(s):<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> October 16, 2024, 3PM UTC</p><p class="MsoNormal"> ISO Zoom teleconference</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Please notify the group if this time slot does not work.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>Carry-over action items:</b></p><p style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;font-family:Arial"> Damian: Ask 754 about midpoint and interpolation<span> </span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;font-family:Arial"><span> Damian: Will send email to 754, to carry over</span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;font-family:Arial"> Jim: Include complex add and sub into the main body.<span> </span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;font-family:Arial"> Jim & everyone: Look at ways to strengthen the complex * and /, given the current code block.</p><p style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;font-family:Arial"><font color="#000000"> [Cfp-interest 3155] Specification of complex operators --Done</font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;font-family:Arial"><font color="#000000"> Jim: Write up notes about frexp() and behavior for model numbers<span> </span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;font-family:Arial"><font color="#000000"> [Cfp-interest 3154] frexp and double-double --Done</font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> New action items:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Update Complex suggestions for Annex G migration.<br></p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Update frexp for double double per discussion, to leave undefined result for non-model numbers.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> Fred: Send note to WG14 about constexper exceptional case issue.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Fred: Send nan() note to WG14 (3259).</p><p class="MsoNormal"> David : Draft reply to WG14 re. midpoint and interpolation.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Send note about lingering references to imaginary (3250).</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Fred: Send the "cannot" vs. "can not" change (3162).</p><p class="MsoNormal"> All: Please comment to Damian by Monday 30 Sept on the 4 sets of proposals.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Write up a proposal for ilogb() and llogb().</p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>IEEE 754 liaison:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> Damian & David: Large, newly-formed committee working on how to expedite discussion of minor issues without the inevitable distractions.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>C++ liaison:</b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> None </p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>WG14 meeting:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> 30 Sept - 4 Oct in Minneapolis, MN</p><p class="MsoNormal"> <br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>C23 integration:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> Mailing deadline is one month before the meeting, given above, so it has passed.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>C23 drafts:</b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> C23 DIS draft is n3219 - 22 Feb 2024</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>C2y drafts:</b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> The working draft is n3301 - 28 July 2024 - For CFP review only. Do not distribute.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Rajan: no need to update existing proposals based on earlier drafts until notified by WG14.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>Action items from last meeting:</b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> All: Investigate issue [Cfp-interest 3196] Fwd: [SC22WG14.26243] constexpr initialization seemingly can contai UB?I from email forwarded by Fred, involving a constant expression of the form 1.0/0.0, for example. --Done<br> All: Investigate issue [Cfp-interest 3195] Fwd: [SC22WG14.26260] Can nan set errno? from an email forwarded by Fred, involving the possible setting of errno by the nan() functions. --Done<br> Jim: Add 2 issues raised by Rajan regarding WG14. --Done<br> Jim: Add actions for group in short term. --Done<br> Jim: Draft proposal to remove instances of imaginary lingering in draft. --Done<br> [Cfp-interest 3250] Lingering references to imaginary type<br> Jerome: add document # to pole proposal. --Done<br> N3324 2024/09/04 Thomas, C2Y proposal - wording for pole error --Done<br> Fred: investigate range error issue for llogb(), which differs from ilogb(). --Done<br> [Cfp-interest 3202] llogb() Fred J. Tydeman<br> Jerome: Identify fadd/fsub and fma "error may occur" issues and report. --to be continued<br> Damian: Send email about sign conventions in Annex F & G proposal. --Done<br> [Cfp-interest 3200] Various Updates to Annex F+G <br> [Cfp-interest 3203] Re: Various Updates to Annex F+G <br> Damian & Jerome: Identify technical changes in the F & G proposal. Investigate ways to split the proposal into natural subsets. ---Done<br> Fred: Revise the proposal for SIGFPE and I/O, in light of further discussion --Done<br> [Cfp-interest 3264] SIGFPE paper <br> </p></div><div><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"> </span><br></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b>TS-4 and TS-5 revisions<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> Waiting to hear from ISO editors.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>C2y issues<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> None.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>Discussion of issues</b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> Moving complex ops spec from Annex G to main body<br> [Cfp-interest 3262] Re: Specification of complex operators Jim Thomas</p><p class="MsoNormal"> [Cfp-interest 3263] Re: Specification of complex operators Damian McGuckin<br> [Cfp-interest 3267] Re: Specification of complex operators Jim Thomas<br> [Cfp-interest 3272] Re: Specification of complex operators Damian McGuckin<br> [Cfp-interest 3273] Re: Specification of complex operators Damian McGuckin<br> [Cfp-interest 3278] Re: Specification of complex operators Paul Zimmermann<br> [Cfp-interest 3275] Re: Specification of complex operators Jim Thomas</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Discussed paper close to ready to be a proposal. Propose to add more substantive discussion than current table of operations. Introduce "x + I y" usage. Explain complex mul, avoiding "undue" exceptions, leading to other operations. This replaces the tables.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Fred: Won't cover cases involving IEEE signed 0 and NaN. Suggest at least a footnote about special values.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Rajan: ...not necessarily just IEEE values.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Joshua: Not sure "compute" is best word. Like the idea of specifying what is wanted, even without all the details.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> David: "Evaluates"?</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Also a tricky word. Decide to take another turn and discuss again.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Clarify the usage of "I"</p><p class="MsoNormal"><br> frexp and double-double<br> [Cfp-interest 3100] Issue: frexp and double-double underflow Hubert Tong<br> [Cfp-interest 3101] Re: Issue: frexp and double-double underflow Fred J. Tydeman<br> [Cfp-interest 3102] Re: Issue: frexp and double-double underflow Fred J. Tydeman<br> [Cfp-interest 3103] Re: Issue: frexp and double-double underflow Hubert Tong<br> [Cfp-interest 3104] Re: [SC22WG14.25365] Issue: frexp and double-double underflow Hubert Tong<br> [Cfp-interest 3154] frexp and double-double Jim Thomas</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Review issue of double double. Two suggestions. One lets result be unspecified if value not a model number. Other path is a dead end.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> David: Say as little as possible.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> All: agree to first option</p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"> constexper initialization with UB<br> [Cfp-interest 3196] Fwd: [SC22WG14.26243] constexpr initialization seemingly can contain UB? Fred J. Tydeman<br> [Cfp-interest 3225] Re: [SC22WG14.26243] constexpr initialization seemingly can contain UB? Jim Thomas<br> [Cfp-interest 3226] Re: [SC22WG14.26243] constexpr initialization seemingly can contain UB? Fred J. Tydeman</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Discuss proposed language for UB</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Rajan: WG14 seems to want more language, but can try this first </p><p class="MsoNormal"><br> nan function and errno<br> [Cfp-interest 3195] Fwd: [SC22WG14.26260] Can nan set errno? Fred J. Tydeman<br> [Cfp-interest 3198] Re: Can nan() set errno? Fred J. Tydeman<br> [Cfp-interest 3210] Re: Can nan() set errno? Jim Thomas<br> [Cfp-interest 3227] Re: Can nan() set errno? Fred J. Tydeman<br> [Cfp-interest 3229] Re: Can nan() set errno? Jim Thomas<br> [Cfp-interest 3230] Re: Can nan() set errno? Joshua Cranmer<br> [Cfp-interest 3237] Re: Can nan() set errno? Fred J. Tydeman<br> [Cfp-interest 3238] Re: Can nan() set errno? Jim Thomas<br> [Cfp-interest 3239] Re: Can nan() set errno? Fred J. Tydeman<br> [Cfp-interest 3256] Re: Can nan() set errno? Jim Thomas<br> [Cfp-interest 3259] Re: Can nan() set errno? Fred J. Tydeman</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Tied to strtod()</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jerome: Should be simple, quiet NaN value, not an exotic implementation-defined value with extra functionality.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Joshua: 754 converts an integer to a NaN</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Fred: Could change strtod() to specify domain errors for "unusual" string</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Should there be a note making strtod() behavior more explicit? Will hold off for now.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><br> mid-point and linear interpolation functions<br> [Cfp-interest 3145] midpoint function David Hough CFP<br> [Cfp-interest 3147] Re: midpoint function Vincent Lefevre<br> [Cfp-interest 3149] Re: midpoint function Mike Cowlishaw<br> [Cfp-interest 3151] Re: midpoint function Vincent Lefevre<br> [Cfp-interest 3150] Re: midpoint function David Hough CFP<br> [Cfp-interest 3146] thoughts on linear interpolations David Hough CFP<br> [Cfp-interest 3148] Re: thoughts on linear interpolations Damian McGuckin</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Damian: initial disc, leading to Vincent's reply, then 3146 from David ("eloquent" even) arguing it might be overkill.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> David: Hard to standardize a function when not an obvious best way to accomplish it.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> All: Sidebar on gamma and Bessel functions, arguably outside scope of C</p><p class="MsoNormal"> David: LAPACK has a def. but that doesn't mean the language standards should.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Case where functions are "slow" in software yet unlikely to be implemented in hardware.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Joshua: Added to C++ language standard, with many good properties (though not perfect, with respect to IEEE exceptions, and others). Will check how much it's used now.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> David: Suggest matching C++ syntax, not semantics</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: After discussion, seems there is no need for a fully specified version of the function.</p><p class="MsoNormal"></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"> lingering imaginary types<br> [Cfp-interest 3250] Lingering references to imaginary type Jim Thomas</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Proposal is ready to go.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> All: As an additional item, the language "....return the imaginary part value (as a real)" in the cimag functions feels redundant (Jim) but there was support to keep the parenthetical for absolute clarity. The issue needs more discussion.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"> use of “can not”<br> [Cfp-interest 3162] use of "can not" in N3301 5.2.2.4p13 Vincent Lefevre</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Issue is spilling a register without changing its value. Suggest change to "cannot" to remove subtle ambiguity of the meaning of "can not", in context</p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"> range errors for ilogb and llogb<br> [Cfp-interest 3202] llogb() Fred J. Tydeman<br> [Cfp-interest 3228] Re: llogb() Jim Thomas<br> [Cfp-interest 3266] Re: llogb() Jim Thomas</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Current usage has over/underflow of just floating point values. This conflicts with the language of ilogb() and llogb(). Suggest removing all references to range error when the result is an integer type</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Rajan: WG14 won't like "obsolescent features"</p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal">--------------ADJOURNMENT-----------------<br></p><p class="MsoNormal"> fadd/fsub and fma "error may occur" issues<br>treatment of error conditions<br> [Cfp-interest 3193] improving the language of 7.12.2 "Treatment of error conditions" Jerome Coonen<br>changes to 6.X and 7.X<br> [Cfp-interest 3247] C26 Complex Related Changes Damian McGuckin<br> [Cfp-interest 3248] Re: C26 Complex Related Changes Damian McGuckin<br> [Cfp-interest 3249] Re: C26 Complex Related Changes Jim Thomas<br> [Cfp-interest 3279] Re: C26 Complex Related Changes Jim Thomas<br>deeper TOC for annexes<br> [Cfp-interest 3164] TOC depth for C annexes<b><br></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><br></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> Other issues:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> </b>None.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">-Jerome Coonen<div> 650.996.4738</div><div> <a href="mailto:jcoonen@gmail.com" target="_blank">jcoonen@gmail.com</a></div></div></div></div></div>
</div></div>
</div></div>