<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div><p class="MsoNormal">2024/08/14: 8 AM PDT</p><p class="MsoNormal"> <b>Attendees</b>: Rajan, Jim, Jerome, Fred, Damian, Joshua, David</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <b>New agenda items</b> (<a href="https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n3310.pdf" target="_blank">https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n3310.pdf</a>):</p><p class="MsoNormal"> None.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> Previous meeting notes:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> See [CFP 3309] (<a href="https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n3309.pdf" target="_blank">https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n3309.pdf</a>).</p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> Next Meeting(s):<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> September 18, 2024, 3PM UTC</p><p class="MsoNormal"> ISO Zoom teleconference</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Please notify the group if this time slot does not work.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> Carry-over action items:</b></p><p style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px;color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"> Damian: Ask 754 about midpoint and interpolation</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"> </span><br></p><p style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Jim: Include complex add and sub into the main body.<span> </span></font></p><p style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Jim & everyone: Look at ways to strengthen the complex * and /, given the current code block.<span> </span></font></p><p style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Jim: Write up notes about frexp() and behavior for model numbers<span> </span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"> [Cfp-interest 3154] frexp and double-double</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim & everyone: Look at ways to strengthen the complex * and /, given the current code block.</p> [Cfp-interest 3155] Specification of complex operators<br><br><p class="MsoNormal"><b> New action items:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> </b>All: Investigate issue [Cfp-interest 3196] Fwd: [SC22WG14.26243] constexpr initialization seemingly can contain UB?I from email forwarded by Fred, involving a constant expression of the form 1.0/0.0, for example.</p></div><div> All: Investigate issue [Cfp-interest 3195] Fwd: [SC22WG14.26260] Can nan set errno? from an email forwarded by Fred, involving the possible setting of errno by the nan() functions.<br><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Add 2 issues raised by Rajan regarding WG14</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Add actions for group in short term.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Draft proposal to remove instances of imaginary lingering in draft.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jerome: add document # to pole proposal.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Fred: investigate range error issue for llogb(), which differs from ilogb()</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jerome: Identify fadd/fsub and fma "error may occur" issues and report.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Damian: Send email about sign conventions in Annex F & G proposal.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Damian & Jerome: Identify technical changes in the F & G proposal. Investigate ways to split the proposal into natural subsets.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Fred: Revise the proposal for SIGFPE and I/O, in light of further discussion</p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> IEEE 754 liaison:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> The working group has started business. The issue of complex has come up, so this group will follow that discussion.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> C++ liaison:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> Will get to midpoint & interpolation in the action items (eventually) </p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> WG14 meeting:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> 30 Sept - 4 Oct in Minneapolis, MN</p><p class="MsoNormal"> <br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> C23 integration:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> Next WG14 meeting:</p><p class="MsoNormal"> September 30, Minneapolis. Mailing deadline is one month before the meeting.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <b> C23 drafts:</b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> C23 DIS draft is 3219 - 22 Feb 2024</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <b>C2y drafts:</b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> The working draft is n3301 - 28 July 2024 - For CFP review only. Do not distribute.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Rajan: no need to update existing proposals based on earlier drafts until notified by WG14.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> Action items from last meeting:</b></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: As a preface to the work items, here are some comments about C as a 40-year-old standard. 750 pp. Huge number of changes from various sources, without ironclad editorial control. We have a chance to clean up odd problems while dealing with more complicated issues. There is worry that we're missing some of the big issues while dealing with all the small ones. </p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Jerome, Jim: Draft proposal to new wording for pole error<span> -- DONE</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span> Jim: Next action is to get a document number and submit.</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span><br></span></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Jerome: Summarize the usage of "may occur" with regard to numerical "anomalies"<span> -- DONE</span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span> Jim & Jerome: Discussed two anomalies uncovered in the review, which led to new actions.</span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span><br></span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> Damian: Send the group a proposal about Annex F/G language re. number ranges, esp. with signed 0</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> Damian: F uses mathematical language and G uses less formal language to describe the exceptional cases. I worked to make them both internally consistent and consistent with with other. I did much "fussy" copyediting to make the language consistent. Using "integral x" for an fp value that has zero fraction part vs. "integer x" is one example.</span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> Damian & Jerome: Question about lexicographical vs. topical order (see various log functions)</span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> Damian: G.4.1p8 is the toughest one, keeping the special cases straight. Adding the formulas seems to help.</span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> JIm: There are issues with the table of complex identities: (a) stated as library functions; (b) insufficient to explain Fred's hard-fought specs; (c) should the be here at all?</span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> Damian: lots of discussion of csinh(x + i INF) and the use of identities in sorting the signs of x and INF. I tried to make all of the cases consistent.</span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> Jim: Shall we continue as a proposal? Can it be broken into parts, say, with technical changes and various flavors of editorial changes? </span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> Rajan: Should pursue this Separate tech from editorial changes.</span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> David (cameo): Makes most sense from a standards committee perspective.</span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> Rajan: More smaller proposals will be easier to sell to WG14</span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Rajan: Submit to WG14 this completed item: Fix the title in the proposal in CFP 3112. Base document as well from<span> --DONE</span></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(4,98,193)">N3286 </span>2024/06/23 Bhakta, Floating-point exceptions for macro replacements</font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span><br></span></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Rajan: Submit to WG14 the proposal for initialization of SNANs, issue #20<span> -- DONE</span></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(4,98,193)">N3288 </span>2024/07/19 Bhakta, Give consistent wording for SNAN initialization<span> </span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span><br></span></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Rajan: Action re. 3109,to fix the language of a NaN "delivered in the destination format, if available" -- DONE</font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(4,98,193)">N3287 </span>2024/06/23 Bhakta, Nonsensical Parenthetical<span> </span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><br></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> Jim: Submit proposal for decimal language to WG14</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> -- DONE</span></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(4,98,193)">N3291 </span>2024/06/27 Thomas, Proposal for C2Y - Decimal floating-point number—misuse of term<span> </span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span><br></span></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Jim: Submit proposal for 60559 macro change<span> -- DONE</span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">N3305 2024/08/05 Thomas, Proposal for C2Y - leftover dependency on WANT macro (updates N3304)<font face="arial, sans-serif"><span><br></span></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br></span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Fred: Write a proposal for SIGFPE being raised for exceptional conversion and I/O circumstances (being careful about raise())<span> </span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span> Fred & Jim: Discuss wording and connection to errno. The spec can be removed from 7.12.</span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span> Rajan, etc.: A footnote would help, perhaps using content moved from 7.12.</span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><br></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"> </span><br></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b> TS-4 and TS-5 revisions<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jime: [Cfp-interest 3184] Updated draft TS's. Have stable subclause numbering in C23 to refer to. Can send off, if no objections by Tuesday 20 Aug 2024.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> C2y issues<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> None.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> Other issues:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> </b>None.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal">[Updates:</p><p class="MsoNormal">* NAN macros --> nan().</p><p class="MsoNormal">* Fleshed out two comments re. the SIGFPE discussion.</p><p class="MsoNormal">* First item of action items from last meeting -- Removed my perhaps oversimplified statement of Jim's proposed process for dealing with changes to these longstanding issues.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">-Jerome Coonen<div> 650.996.4738</div><div> <a href="mailto:jcoonen@gmail.com" target="_blank">jcoonen@gmail.com</a></div></div></div></div></div>
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