<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div><p class="MsoNormal">2024/08/14: 8 AM PDT</p><p class="MsoNormal"> <b>Attendees</b>: Rajan, Jim, Jerome, Fred, Damian, Joshua, David</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <b>New agenda items</b> (<a href="https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n3310.pdf" target="_blank">https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n3310.pdf</a>):</p><p class="MsoNormal"> None.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> Previous meeting notes:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> See [CFP 3309] (<a href="https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n3309.pdf" target="_blank">https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n3309.pdf</a>).</p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> Next Meeting(s):<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> September 18, 2024, 3PM UTC</p><p class="MsoNormal"> ISO Zoom teleconference</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Please notify the group if this time slot does not work.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> Carry-over action items:</b></p><p style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px;color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"> Damian: Ask 754 about midpoint and interpolation</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"> </span><br></p><p style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Jim: Include complex add and sub into the main body.<span> </span></font></p><p style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Jim & everyone: Look at ways to strengthen the complex * and /, given the current code block.<span> </span></font></p><p style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Jim: Write up notes about frexp() and behavior for model numbers<span> </span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"> [Cfp-interest 3154] frexp and double-double</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim & everyone: Look at ways to strengthen the complex * and /, given the current code block.</p> [Cfp-interest 3155] Specification of complex operators<br><br><p class="MsoNormal"><b> New action items:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> </b>All: Investigate issue [Cfp-interest 3196] Fwd: [SC22WG14.26243] constexpr initialization seemingly can contain UB?I from email forwarded by Fred, involving a constant expression of the form 1.0/0.0, for example.</p></div><div> All: Investigate issue [Cfp-interest 3195] Fwd: [SC22WG14.26260] Can nan set errno? from an email forwarded by Fred, involving the possible setting of errno by the NAN macros.<br><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Add 2 issues raised by Rajan regarding WG14</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Add actions for group in short term.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: Draft proposal to remove instances of imaginary lingering in draft.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jerome: add document # to pole proposal.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Fred: investigate range error issue for llogb(), which differs from ilogb()</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jerome: Identify fadd/fsub and fma "error may occur" issues and report.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Damian: Send email about sign conventions in Annex F & G proposal.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Damian & Jerome: Identify technical changes in the F & G proposal. Investigate ways to split the proposal into natural subsets.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Fred: Revise the proposal for SIGFPE and I/O, in light of further discussion</p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> IEEE 754 liaison:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> The working group has started business. The issue of complex has come up, so this group will follow that discussion.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> C++ liaison:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> Will get to midpoint & interpolation in the action items (eventually) </p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> WG14 meeting:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> 30 Sept - 4 Oct in Minneapolis, MN</p><p class="MsoNormal"> <br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> C23 integration:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> Next WG14 meeting:</p><p class="MsoNormal"> September 30, Minneapolis. Mailing deadline is one month before the meeting.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <b> C23 drafts:</b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> C23 DIS draft is 3219 - 22 Feb 2024</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <b>C2y drafts:</b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> The working draft is n3301 - 28 July 2024 - For CFP review only. Do not distribute.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Rajan: no need to update existing proposals based on earlier drafts until notified by WG14.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> Action items from last meeting:</b></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> Jim: As a preface to the work items, here are some comments about C as a 40-year-old standard. 750 pp. Huge number of changes from various sources, without ironclad editorial control. We have a chance to clean up odd problems while dealing with more complicated issues. There is worry that we're missing some of the big issues while dealing with all the small ones. The process is simple: (a) Identify issue. (b) Discuss. (c) Propose solution, if needed. (d) Review updates.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Jerome, Jim: Draft proposal to new wording for pole error<span> -- DONE</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span> Jim: Next action is to get a document number and submit.</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span><br></span></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Jerome: Summarize the usage of "may occur" with regard to numerical "anomalies"<span> -- DONE</span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span> Jim & Jerome: Discussed two anomalies uncovered in the review, which led to new actions.</span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span><br></span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> Damian: Send the group a proposal about Annex F/G language re. number ranges, esp. with signed 0</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> Damian: F uses mathematical language and G uses less formal language to describe the exceptional cases. I worked to make them both internally consistent and consistent with with other. I did much "fussy" copyediting to make the language consistent. Using "integral x" for an fp value that has zero fraction part vs. "integer x" is one example.</span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> Damian & Jerome: Question about lexicographical vs. topical order (see various log functions)</span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> Damian: G.4.1p8 is the toughest one, keeping the special cases straight. Adding the formulas seems to help.</span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> JIm: There are issues with the table of complex identities: (a) stated as library functions; (b) insufficient to explain Fred's hard-fought specs; (c) should the be here at all?</span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> Damian: lots of discussion of csinh(x + i INF) and the use of identities in sorting the signs of x and INF. I tried to make all of the cases consistent.</span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> Jim: Shall we continue as a proposal? Can it be broken into parts, say, with technical changes and various flavors of editorial changes? </span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> Rajan: Should pursue this Separate tech from editorial changes.</span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> David (cameo): Makes most sense from a standards committee perspective.</span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> Rajan: More smaller proposals will be easier to sell to WG14</span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Rajan: Submit to WG14 this completed item: Fix the title in the proposal in CFP 3112. Base document as well from<span> --DONE</span></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(4,98,193)">N3286 </span>2024/06/23 Bhakta, Floating-point exceptions for macro replacements</font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span><br></span></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Rajan: Submit to WG14 the proposal for initialization of SNANs, issue #20<span> -- DONE</span></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(4,98,193)">N3288 </span>2024/07/19 Bhakta, Give consistent wording for SNAN initialization<span> </span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span><br></span></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Rajan: Action re. 3109,to fix the language of a NaN "delivered in the destination format, if available" -- DONE</font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(4,98,193)">N3287 </span>2024/06/23 Bhakta, Nonsensical Parenthetical<span> </span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><br></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> Jim: Submit proposal for decimal language to WG14</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> -- DONE</span></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(4,98,193)">N3291 </span>2024/06/27 Thomas, Proposal for C2Y - Decimal floating-point number—misuse of term<span> </span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span><br></span></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Jim: Submit proposal for 60559 macro change<span> -- DONE</span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">N3305 2024/08/05 Thomas, Proposal for C2Y - leftover dependency on WANT macro (updates N3304)<font face="arial, sans-serif"><span><br></span></font></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br></span></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> Fred: Write a proposal for SIGFPE being raised for exceptional conversion and I/O circumstances (being careful about raise())<span> </span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span> Fred & Jim: Discuss wording and connection to errno. The spec can be </span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span> Rajan, etc.: A footnote would help, if moved from....</span></font></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><br></p><p style="margin:0px;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"> </span><br></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b> TS-4 and TS-5 revisions<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> Jime: [Cfp-interest 3184] Updated draft TS's. Have stable subclause numbering in C23 to refer to. Can send off, if no objections by Tuesday 20 Aug 2024.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> C2y issues<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"> None.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> Other issues:<u></u><u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b> </b>None.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">-Jerome Coonen<div> 650.996.4738</div><div> <a href="mailto:jcoonen@gmail.com" target="_blank">jcoonen@gmail.com</a></div></div></div></div></div>
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