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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Proposed CFP report to the next WG14 meeting follows. Please let me know if you have any comments. We can discuss in tomorrows meeting if there are any.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> - Continuing to handle any questions, bugs, comments from the community (papers in the pipeline here)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> - Proposing an update to TS 18661-4<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> - Removing parts that are in C2X already and updating the contents to be just the remainder for the new revision of this TS part.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> - Forwarding an external request to make 7.12.13's title "Floating multiply-add"->"Fused multiply-add"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> - Is this editorial? Does the requestor need a paper and champion?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande",sans-serif">Regards,<br>
<br>
<b>Rajan Bhakta</b><br>
z/OS XL C/C++ Compiler Technical Architect<br>
ISO C Standards Representative (Canada, USA), PL22.11 Chair<br>
C/C++ Compiler Development<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande",sans-serif">rbhakta@us.ibm.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande",sans-serif">IBM</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Rajan Bhakta <rbhakta@us.ibm.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, March 30, 2022 at 12:19 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>cfp-interest@oakapple.net <cfp-interest@oakapple.net><br>
<b>Subject: </b>WG14 IEEE 754-C binding meeting minutes 2022/03/30<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <b>Attendees:</b> Rajan, Jim, Fred, Ian, Jerome Coonen, Damian, Mike, David H, Vivian Van Loan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <b>New agenda items </b>(https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/CFP_meeting_agenda_20220330-update.pdf):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: Allow floating point in integer constant expressions as a new item.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Next Meeting(s):</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> April 20th, 2022, 3PM UTC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> ISO Zoom teleconference<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Please notify the group if this time slot does not work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Carry over action items:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> David H: Get an example for the scaled reduction functions (perhaps by asking Jason or Jim or looking into the IEEE references).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> David H: Get an example for the augmented arithmetic functions (perhaps by asking Jason or Jim or looking into the IEEE references).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Last meeting action items:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Done unless specified otherwise. Details below in “<b>Action item results</b>” section.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> New action items:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> David H: Look into why Rajan’s email's don't carry the attachment links that work when archived.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: Look into the proposed update to TS Part 4 counted page 13, line 30 to see if "+0" should be "positive zero" and whether we should specify the quantum exponent.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: Proposed update to TS Part 4 scaled functions counted page 16, line 36: Change "of NaN" to "or NaN".<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: Look into the proposed update to TS Part 4 counted page 21, line 20: Make the first word plural (specification*s*).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> C++ liaison:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> See [Cfp-interest 2399, 2400, 2406] C++ and extended floating-point types<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: This was something we discussed during our meetings.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: Nothing new.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> C23 integration:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> No new drafts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Review draft:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> See [Cfp-interest 2319 chain] current C2x draft<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Old schedule not to be met. David Keaton to issue a new schedule sometime soon.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Carry-over action items results</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: Ask C++ what their issues with *_HAS_SUBNORM are and if they are OK with obsoleting it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: No responses that addressed that question.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Action items results</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> (from 2022-03-16 meeting)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Rajan: Put it into the WG14 CFP report the outside request to make 7.12.13 and F<x>'s titles "Floating"->"Fused" that is editorial.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> See [Cfp-interest 2396,2397] Re: WG14 IEEE 754-C binding meeting minutes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: I read what Steve posted, and in that it said the base FP unit it was unfused. The optional FE unit was fused.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: Post to CFP the WG14 schedule for C23: N2864. - Done.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> N2864 2021/11/01 Keaton, Revised C23 Schedule<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: Post the decisions on *HAS_SUBNORM by WG14 minutes to Jim.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> See [Cfp-interest 2395] *_HAS_SUBNORM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: Can you do issubnorm with nextup of zero?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: Yes, that would work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: Obsolesce doesn't require changes for implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Rajan: A lot of discussion on what obsolescent means.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: Look at updating the C26.TXT file to follow what Mike is doing for 754.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: Not done yet.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> David H: Get an example for the scaled reduction functions (perhaps by asking Jason or Jim or looking into the IEEE references).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> David H: Not done yet.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> David H: Get an example for the augmented arithmetic functions (perhaps by asking Jason or Jim or looking into the IEEE references).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> David H: Not done yet.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Other issues</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> N2823 (freestanding) revision<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> See [Cfp-interest 2398,2410] N2823 revision 2 (version 8)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: Say a freestanding implementation can have 0.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Rajan: That is not the issue, hosted is not a strict superset of freestanding anymore.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: Any issues with locales still? Not FP issue though.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Rajan: Yes, C locale is the only one required by the standard.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> x++ and decimal FP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> See [Cfp-interest 2405 chain] x++ and DFP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: C/C++ defines ++ as adding the value 1 to the operand. For DFP, what is the quantum exponent of that 1?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: Some responses from Mike and Vincent, and the gist was have zero as the quantum exponent. In C the words say the expression ++E is equivalent to (E)+=1 where the 1 is in program font meaning an
int constant.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Mike: I can't see anyone treating it any other way.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: The conversion from int to decimal gives a preferred quantum exponent of zero. So the rules cover it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: Joseph brought this up.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Mike: Perhaps say it is adding the integer one instead of using the font.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: Rajan, can you handle this if it comes up again?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Rajan: Yes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> TS 18661-4 update<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> See [Cfp-interest 2390,2393,2409] post-C23 update for TS 18661-4<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: (Re 559 vs 60559) Even going to the website you see different names for the same standard, and sometimes even different numbers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Mike: The sales site should say which name it should be.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: I'm not sure that is consistent.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: The TS does require Annex F conformance now. The freestanding part needs to be reexamined.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Rajan: Conforming is fine. Strictly conforming should be fine too as long as no static storage is required for the accumulation. Need to think about that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: Augmented could have tgmath, while the others can't since they take array arguments and we haven't had tgmath for those in the past.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: Some changes for the reduction functions to ensure it synced up with 754. The entire specification is in the description now.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: I thought SNANs are required now in C23?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: No, a macro is defined if you support them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: Page 13, Line 30, "value +0." Is that an integer 0 full stop, or is it a floating-point zero?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: It is supposed to be a positive zero. Could say "positive zero" instead of "+0".<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> ^AI: Jim: Look into TS part 4 p 13, line 30 to see if "+0" should be "positive zero".<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: What is the quantum exponent for the decimal functions?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: We say the preferred exponent for the reduction functions is unspecified.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Mike: I think anyone would use 0 for zeros.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: Sometimes you'd want the most negative exponent.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Mike: That's pretty rare.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: If we want to do that here we could but I'd have to change the "is unspecified".<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: For the scaled functions, (page 16, line 36) it doesn't say what is returned in the scaled factor pointer. Nor does 754.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> ^Mike: Should say "or NaN" not "of NaN".<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: Hearing it seems OK to require the scale factor to be zero in those cases.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: (Counted) Page 21, line 19: The exceptions here are dancing around the subtle difference between signaling and raising flags in 754. We could say for alternate exception handling may need to signal
inexact.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Mike: Maybe ask the 754 list?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: If you can find a way to do that, can you? C doesn't have alternate exception handling.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> David H: The first person to put this in hardware will probably determine how it gets resolved.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: On counted page 21, line 20, should the first word be plural?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: Maybe. I think I took this right out of 754.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: Still a question about enough prior art for augmented arithmetic.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: Isn't the double double implementations the prior art?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> David H: It's not just like this. Until the hardware exists, it will not be used for double double.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: Too many special cases to make this efficient for software right?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> David H: Yes, this was for new hardware. To do what we wanted would be too expensive in software and be too slow. That was the argument back then.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <b>Others</b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: Idea from Pavel to allow floating-point arithmetic in integer constant expressions. Seemed out of bounds for this group.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: I had words added to C23 that says that new constant expressions are not new integer constant expressions. Comes up for VLA's vs regular arrays. The words preclude what he wants right now.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Jim: If he wants to pursue this, he needs to talk to a WG14 member to do so.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Fred: I can tell him he needs to join WG14 or have a partner who is to bring forward something like this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande",sans-serif">Regards,<br>
<br>
<b>Rajan Bhakta</b><br>
z/OS XL C/C++ Compiler Technical Architect<br>
ISO C Standards Representative (Canada, USA), PL22.11 Chair<br>
C/C++ Compiler Development</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande",sans-serif">rbhakta@us.ibm.com</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande",sans-serif">IBM</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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