<html><body><p><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> </font><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><b>Attendees</b></font><font size="2" face="sans-serif">: Rajan, Jim, Fred, Mike, Ian, David H, </font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><b> New agenda items (</b></font><a href="https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/CFP_meeting_agenda_20220119-update.pdf"><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><b>https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/CFP_meeting_agenda_20220119-update.pdf</b></font></a><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><b>):</b></font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Mike: Question from Rex J.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><b> Next Meeting(s):</b></font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Note: Different time: New time = Regular time slot + 1h.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> February 10th, 2022, 5PM UTC</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> ISO Zoom teleconference</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Please notify the group if this time slot does not work.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><b> Double postings: See CFP2324,CFP2325</b></font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> No one other than Fred seeing this. Leave it as is.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><b> C++ Liaison:</b></font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Nothing new.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><b> C23 Integration: Review draft: See CFP2320</b></font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> CFP2319,...,CFP2340 dealing with the draft to validate papers we submitted made it in right.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: Jim's editorial change did not get discussed in a meeting and not in the draft list of papers put in (renaming of the SNAN macros). Not sure if it was done in the draft.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: You sent the summary to him too right?</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: Yes, I sent it to the CFP group and he should have gotten it.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: My action item may cover that.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: I noticed for SNAN prefixes, not quiet NANs.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: I can add on SNAN prefixes to my item.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><b> New agenda item: Mike: Rex talking about C# has normative references to C. He asked if he should use 2011 IEC 60559 or not. I suspect not. Any list of changes between 2011 and 2020 for 754?</b></font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> David H: There were some listed under the background document on my website (ucbtest.com/background) and 754's.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: He does have the 2017 C right?</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Mike: Yes, I believe so.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><b> Carry-over action items:</b></font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Rajan: For CFP2291, update the color to be more readable and add in wcstod functions updates and refer to overflow/underflow in 7.12.1 if possible. See [Cfp-interest 2341] Update to N2823.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: The first change didn't have a bulleted list. The second does. Should have the same.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: I prefer non-bulleted. Note bullet 3 is not a part of overflow.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> ^Jim: Also make the last sentence a semicolon continual sentence.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: Since you can't access errno, is it really an issue having errno there?</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> ^Jim: It seems the way it is specified here is x but not y. Seems different. Can we say errno can't be accessed along with the floating point environment.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> ^Jim: The identifiers for fenv.h and math.h should also be reserved as per stdlib.h in alternative 1.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Mike: Bulleted lists should not be capitalized since they are not sentences.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: Ask C++ what their issues with *_HAS_SUBNORM are and if they are OK with obsoleting it.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: Asked the C/C++ shared reflector and got one comment back, but after my second post, got none.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: During the WG14 meeting, we only discussed removing SUBNORM macros, but nothing about adding the paragraph about flushing. On the agenda for WG14's next meeting.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: Keep this item on the carry over list.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><b> Last meeting action items (done unless specified otherwise, details below):</b></font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: Submit [update to “normal”] to WG 14.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> See: </font><a href="https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n2881.pdf"><font size="2" face="sans-serif">https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n2881.pdf</font></a><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: Submit [update to “max exponent macros”] to WG 14.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> See: </font><a href="https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n2882.pdf"><font size="2" face="sans-serif">https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n2882.pdf</font></a><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: [in update to 5.2.4.2.2] copy changes to footnote 22 into set of suggested changes to N2806+N2596.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: [in update to 5.2.4.2.2] change the last item which says "are called zero floating-point numbers" to just "are zeros".</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: Submit [update to 5.2.4.2.2] to WG 14, after making [two] changes above.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> See: </font><a href="https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n2879.pdf"><font size="2" face="sans-serif">https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n2879.pdf</font></a><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: [in update to “overflow”] change 7.12.11.5 nextup to match 11.6 nextdown as follows: If x is the positive number (finite or infinite) of maximum magnitude in the type, nextup(x) is x....</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif">and submit to WG 14.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> See: </font><a href="https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n2880.pdf"><font size="2" face="sans-serif">https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n2880.pdf</font></a><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: Track the many changes to infinity and nan macros. - Not Done.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: Add printf rounding issue in [Cfp-interest 2256] to list of issues to be revisited for next version.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> All: Review N2726 (Meneide, _Imaginary_I and _Complex_I Qualifiers, revision 0) for next time.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: send note to editor asking for editorial change in 7.12.7.3 “of a floating-point number x” to “of x”. Copy Rajan and Fred.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Anyone interested: Review terminology introduced in 5.2.4.2.2 and report.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> See CFP22{58,63,64,71}</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><b> New action items:</b></font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Rajan: Update CFP2341 to use paragraph form with semicolon separators.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Rajan: CFP2341: Look into seeing if we can say errno and the floating point environment can't be accessed (like with the "as if" rule).</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Rajan: Update CFP2341 to say the identifiers for fenv.h and math.h should also be reserved as per stdlib.h in alternative 1.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: Track the many changes to infinity and nan macros. Particularly still need to check prefixes for signaling nan macros. - Carry over.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: Post the list of issues to be revisited for the next version on the CFP wiki.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: Add an issue for a future version to look at the 5.2.4.2.2 terminology and ensure it is correct and consistent.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: Put the NAN not raising exceptions footnote idea into the list of items for a future revision of C.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><b> Upcoming WG14 meetings:</b></font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> January 31-February 4, 2022, Portland, Oregon, US (Tentative)</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Mailing deadline: December 31, 2021</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> July 11-15, 2022, Strasbourg, France (Tentative)</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Mailing deadline: June 10, 2022</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><b> Action item resolutions:</b></font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: Submit [update to “normal”] to WG 14: See </font><a href="https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n2881.pdf"><font size="2" face="sans-serif">https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n2881.pdf</font></a><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Done.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: Submit [update to “max exponent macros”] to WG 14: See </font><a href="https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n2882.pdf"><font size="2" face="sans-serif">https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n2882.pdf</font></a><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Done.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: [in update to 5.2.4.2.2] copy changes to footnote 22 into set of suggested changes to N2806+N2596.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Submitted.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: [in update to 5.2.4.2.2] change the last item which says "are called zero floating-point numbers" to just "are zeros".</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Submitted.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: Submit [update to 5.2.4.2.2] to WG 14, after making [two] changes above: See </font><a href="https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n2879.pdf"><font size="2" face="sans-serif">https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n2879.pdf</font></a><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Submitted.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: [in update to “overflow”] change 7.12.11.5 nextup to match 11.6 nextdown as follows: If x is the positive number (finite or infinite) of maximum magnitude in the type, nextup(x) is x....</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif">and submit to WG 14: See </font><a href="https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n2880.pdf"><font size="2" face="sans-serif">https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n2880.pdf</font></a><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: Rajan, are you OK with these 4 papers?</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Rajan: Yes, but will contact you directly if I do have issues or questions.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: Track the many changes to infinity and nan macros.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> ^Jim: Still to do. Particularly still need to check prefixes for signaling nan macros. Keep as carry over item.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: Add printf rounding issue in [Cfp-interest 2256] to list of issues to be revisited for next version.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Done.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: Can you post the list on the wiki?</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> ^Fred: Post the list of issues to be revisited for the next version on the CFP wiki.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> All: Review N2726 (Meneide, _Imaginary_I and _Complex_I Qualifiers, revision 0) for next time.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: It is still usable for static initialization and this change doesn't affect that.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: send note to editor asking for editorial change in 7.12.7.3 “of a floating-point number x” to “of x”. Copy Rajan and Fred.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: This was already in a proposal so we can close this.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Anyone interested: Review terminology introduced in 5.2.4.2.2 and report: See CFP22{58,63,64,71}</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: Is this the large floating point values being nearest to infinity?</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: I don't think so. The key issue for me was the use of the term "floating point number" or "floating point value". Those terms appear throughout the standard so we have to be careful if we change them.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> ^Fred: Add an issue for a future version to look at the 5.2.4.2.2 terminology and ensure it is correct and consistent.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"><b> Other Issues:</b></font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Infinity and exceptions: See CFP23{07,17,18,...,30} infinity and exceptions</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: The conclusion was INFINITY and NAN macros were not prohibited from raising exceptions.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: The macros are only required if they are supported right?</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: Yes, but they don't have to follow Annex F.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: NAN is defined to be a quiet NaN so it can't have exceptions.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: There is a statement what quiet NaN's don't have exceptions I believe.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: 5.2.4.2.2 says a QNaN propagates through *almost* every operation. I believe it is *every* operation not *almost* every.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: My response is in CFP2335. Your examples there can raise exceptions.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: There is no definition in the C standard that says what an arithmetic operator is. Some believe it is only +,-,*,/.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: Evaluating NaN alone without any operations should not have exceptions since it is defined as being quiet.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Rajan: Microsoft and IBM z do have exceptions.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: Can we have a footnote or something saying a quiet NaN has no exceptions. So "evaluating the macro NAN has no exceptions" or something like that. We can put it into the updates to INFINITY and NANs or just leave it for a new standard.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Rajan: Not opposed to this, but should be a new proposal.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: Some simple uncontestable clarifications can be brought forward at some point to WG14.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> ^Fred: Put the NAN not raising exceptions footnote idea into the list of items for a future revision of C.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Correctly rounded math functions: See CFP2308</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Anyone interested in this can engage Paul.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Flushed subnormals: See CFP2314-CFP2316</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: I do intend to present words to say it is implementation defined what happens when flushing subnormals.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: Send the WG14 paper number for the flushed subnormals to the CFP list.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Paper is N2797.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> “almost” and Quiet NaN: See CFP2332,CFP2335</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: Do we need to define arithmetic operation?</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> WG14 question.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: C standard never defines integer arithmetic, or binary arithmetic so it is implicitly undefined. I don't have the access to the vocabulary document so can't check if it is the normal English term.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: Before going to WG14, you should have a definition to give. 754 did it for classifications of operations I believe.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> </font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> nan("1111111111111111111111...."): See CFP23{33,...,2339}</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Fred: It sets errno to ERANGE but does not raise any FP exceptions. Vincent looked at glibc and the nan function calls strtoul which gets the ERANGE.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Jim: The ERANGE is wrong. It doesn't fit the definition of a range error.</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> </font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> Others:</font><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> None.</font><BR>
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