<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 1, 2021, at 5:54 AM, Mike Cowlishaw <<a href="mailto:mfc@speleotrove.com" class="">mfc@speleotrove.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div dir="ltr" align="left" class=""><span class="748564712-01102021"><font color="#0000ff" size="2" face="Arial" class="">Depending on how 'value' is used elsewhere, I prefer (b)
because I think many people consider 'different values' to be synonymous with
'do not compare equal' .. so (a) appears to be an oxymoron.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left" class=""><span class="748564712-01102021"><font color="#0000ff" size="2" face="Arial" class=""></font></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left" class=""><span class="748564712-01102021"><font color="#0000ff" size="2" face="Arial" class="">But (b) has the same problem, in truth, because the primary
sense of 'equivalent' is 'equal in value'.</font></span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>The phrase “are not equivalent" is used six time in the same subclause. The subclause is about expression transformations (optimizations). The term “equivalent” is used to mean one expression can replace the other, without any detectable behavior change. Also, the term “equivalent” is used in other places in the C standard, with a broader meaning than “equal in value”, for example in saying code sequences are equivalent.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- Jim Thomas<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""></blockquote></div></div></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space" class="">
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<div dir="ltr" align="left" class=""><span class="748564712-01102021"><font color="#0000ff" size="2" face="Arial" class="">Perhaps:</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left" class=""><span class="748564712-01102021"><font color="#0000ff" size="2" face="Arial" class=""></font></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left" class=""><span class="748564712-01102021"><font color="#0000ff" size="2" face="Arial" class=""> <font size="3" face="Times New Roman" class="">The
results are not<font color="#00ff00" class=""> the same</font> because they have
different quantum exponents.</font>
<div class=""><br class=""></div></font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left" class=""><span class="748564712-01102021"><font color="#0000ff" size="2" face="Arial" class=""></font></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left" class=""><span class="748564712-01102021"><font color="#0000ff" size="2" face="Arial" class="">Mike</font></span></div><br class="">
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<font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><b class="">From:</b> Cfp-interest
[<a href="mailto:cfp-interest-bounces@oakapple.net" class="">mailto:cfp-interest-bounces@oakapple.net</a>] <b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Jim
Thomas<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> 30 September 2021 23:47<br class=""><b class="">To:</b>
CFP<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> [Cfp-interest 2171] AI about new wording for unaccepted
change<br class=""></font><br class=""></div>
<div class=""></div>Action item:
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
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<![endif]--><!--StartFragment--><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif" class=""> Jim:
Propose new wording for N2716's change that WG14 did not accept as
is.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><!--EndFragment--></blockquote></div>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">The suggested change in question is:</div>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 40px; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px" class="" type="cite">
<div class="">Page 450, paragraph 4, in the Example, change:</div>
<div class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote>
<blockquote style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 40px; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px" class="" type="cite">
<blockquote style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 40px; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px" class="" type="cite">
<div class="">The results are numerically equal, but have different quantum
exponents, hence have different values.</div></blockquote></blockquote>
<blockquote style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 40px; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px" class="" type="cite">
<div class="">to</div></blockquote>
<blockquote style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 40px; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px" class="" type="cite">
<blockquote style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 40px; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px" class="" type="cite">
<div class="">The results are equal, but have different quantum exponents,
hence have different values.</div></blockquote></blockquote>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">The immediately preceding text is:</div>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 40px; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px" class="" type="cite">
<div class="">3 For expressions of decimal floating types, transformations must
preserve quantum exponents, as well as numerical values
(5.2.4.2.3). </div>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">4 EXAMPLE 1. × x → x is valid for decimal floating-point
expressions x, but 1.0 × x → x is not: </div>
<div class="">1. × 12.34 = (+1, 1, 0) × (+1, 1234, −2) = (+1, 1234, −2) =
12.34 </div>
<div class="">1.0 × 12.34 = (+1, 10, −1) × (+1, 1234, −2) = (+1, 12340, −3) =
12.340</div></blockquote>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">A minimal change that responds to the reported WG14 discussion
[Cfp-interest 2128] would be:</div>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 40px; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px" class="" type="cite">
<div class="">a) The results compare equal, but have different quantum exponents,
hence have different values.</div></blockquote>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">However, we haven’t used “compare equal” in the subclauses. I think a
more direct statement would be:</div>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 40px; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px" class="" type="cite">
<div class="">b) The results are not equivalent because they have different quantum
exponents.</div>
<div class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>Please let me know ASAP if you prefer a) or b) or something
else.
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">- Jim Thomas<br class="">
<blockquote style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 40px; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px" class="" type="cite">
<div class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote><br class="">
<blockquote style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 40px; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px" class="" type="cite">
<div class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote><br class=""></div></blockquote></div>
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