<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><br><div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>From: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">James W Thomas <<a href="mailto:jaswthomas@sbcglobal.net">jaswthomas@sbcglobal.net</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Re: (SC22WG14.12927) RE: RE: a term for float, double, and long double</b><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Date: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">May 20, 2013 9:03:30 AM PDT<br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>To: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><<a href="mailto:beh@ix.netcom.com">beh@ix.netcom.com</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Cc: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">"'SC22 WG14'" <<a href="mailto:sc22wg14@open-std.org">sc22wg14@open-std.org</a>><br></span></div><br><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"><base href="x-msg://919/"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">C99 changed the type structure<div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>signed integer types</div><div><br></div><div>to</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>signed integer types</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>standard signed integer types (adding long long)</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>extended signed integer types</div><div><br></div><div>TS 18661 Part 2 changes</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>real floating types</div><div><br></div><div>to</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>real floating types</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>generic/traditional floating types</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>decimal floating types</div><div><br></div><div>(Part 3 tucks another collection of types under real floating types.)</div><div><br></div><div>So, we are following the model for integer types in the C Standard, except for the names "standard" and "extended". </div><div><br></div><div>The term "extended format" has a well-established and very different meaning in the IEC 60559 FP Standard. Most of the new types we're proposing are not "extended" in the IEC 60559 sense. Calling all of them "extended" would cause confusion.</div><div><br></div><div>Referring to float, double, and long double as the "standard floating types" might be reasonable. Part 2 proposes changes to the C Standard that make the decimal floating types conditionally normative, not just possible extensions (like the extended integer types). Defining "standard floating types" to exclude conditionally normative floating types doesn't seem like a clear win. Is "standard" a better term than "traditional"?</div><div><br></div><div>-Jim</div><div><br></div><div></div><div><div>On May 19, 2013, at 7:53 AM, "BEH Netcom" <<a href="mailto:beh@ix.netcom.com">beh@ix.netcom.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Then I favor some clarity here, because different terms are being introduced to mean essentially the same thing as terms already defined by the Standard.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">1. The term 'real floating types' should always mean float, double and long double. That's already defined. I am not in favor of starting to call them something else, regardless of what the something else is.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">2. The term 'generic floating type' should not be used at all. We already have a keyword _Generic, several 'generic functions', as well as type-generic math that applies to floating point types. It's simply too easy to confuse the terms 'type-generic' with 'generic type'.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">If the intent is, as stated below, to add types to those defined as 'real floating types' (float, double, long double) then I suggest an approach modeled on that used in 6.2.5, Types, for 'standard integer types'. Additional integer types are allowed, they are implementation-defined, and they are called 'extended integer types'.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">It seems to me that model works for the additional types to be added to 'real floating types'. They can be called 'extended real floating types'. The difference is they are defined in the specification rather than being implementation-defined, but that should not matter. I believe that model is clear and consistent.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Barry<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: blue; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; "><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0in 0in; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:owner-sc22wg14@open-std.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">owner-sc22wg14@open-std.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:owner-<a href="mailto:sc22wg14@open-std.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">sc22wg14@open-std.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>James W Thomas<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, May 18, 2013 5:00 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:beh@ix.netcom.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">beh@ix.netcom.com</a><br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'SC22 WG14'<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(SC22WG14.12926) RE: a term for float, double, and long double<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">We need the specification in the Standard for real floating types to apply to the new types we're adding in TS 18661 Parts 2 and 3. So, "real floating types" need to include more than float, double, and long double. It has been convenient to have a collective term to refer to float, double, and long double, and only those types. You can search through Part 2 for "generic floating type" to see how much it is used there. <o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">-Jim<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">On May 17, 2013, at 1:55 PM, BEH Netcom <<a href="mailto:beh@ix.netcom.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">beh@ix.netcom.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The C Standard already has a term for these types:</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">6.2.5;p10</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">There are three<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>real floating types</i>, designated as<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b><span style="font-family: Courier-Bold, serif; ">float</span></b>,<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b><span style="font-family: Courier-Bold, serif; ">double</span></b>, and<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b><span style="font-family: Courier-Bold, serif; ">long double.</span></b><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Is there a real need to come up with yet another term for these three types?</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Barry</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: blue; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; "><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0in 0in; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><a href="mailto:owner-sc22wg14@open-std.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; "><span style="color: purple; ">owner-sc22wg14@open-std.org</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:owner-<a href="mailto:sc22wg14@open-std.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; "><span style="color: purple; ">sc22wg14@open-std.org</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>James W Thomas<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, May 17, 2013 9:57 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>SC22 WG14<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>(SC22WG14.12924) a term for float, double, and long double</span><o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">At Delft, in the meeting segment on TS 18661 Part 3, concern was expressed about the use of the term "generic floating types", which is introduced in Parts 2 and 3 (and the existing Decimal TR), to refer to the float, double, and long double types (and not to the other floating types introduced in those specifications). The issue is the possible confusion with other uses of the term "generic" in the C Standard. At the CFP teleconference yesterday, we considered other terms and decided to recommend "traditional". For example, Part 2 would say: <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span class="apple-tab-span"> </span><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>There are three<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>traditional floating types</i>, designated as float, double, and long double.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">and:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span class="apple-tab-span"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "> </span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Together, the traditional floating types and the decimal floating types comprise the <i>real floating types</i>.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Other terms we considered include "general", "default", and "classical".</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">If you have concerns with this use of the term "traditional", please respond by May 31.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">- Jim Thomas</span><o:p></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>