[cfp-interest 3563] JTC1/SC22/WG14/CFP 2025/08/13 Meeting notes

Wed Aug 13 22:26:38 PDT 2025

2025/08/13: 8:00 AM PDT/3:00 PM UTC
[Please submit proposed changes to these minutes to Jerome or to the group.
Revision changes appear at the bottom.]

*Attendees*

    Jim Thomas, Rajan Bhakta, Jerome Coonen, Damian McGuckin, David Hough

*Updated agenda plus new items*

    https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/CFP meeting
agenda-20250813-update.pdf – These minutes should be read alongside the
agenda, with its many reference links.

*Previous meeting notes*

    https://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/n3675.pdf

*Study group logistics*

    Next meeting: 17 September 2025, 8:00 AM PDT/3:00 PM UTC

    ISO Zoom teleconference

    Please notify the group if this time slot does not work.

*C documents*

    The latest C2Y draft is N3550 May 2025
https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n3550.pdf

    C23 has been published ISO/IEC 9899, available for purchase.
https://www.iso.org/standard/82075.html

*IEEE 754 liaison*

    Damian: Meetings largely devoted to the formats. "Basic format"
removed, replaced by "standard specified format", with many implications
throughout the standard. Likewise, "supported format" is replaced by
"supported interchange format" or "supported arithmetic format", as
appropriate. Decimal32 and Binary16 are now standard specified formats.
There may be a more explicit qualification of the "conversion-from-integer
operations" and at least one of the conversion-to-integer operations".

    David: At least three editors share responsibility for the document
itself.

*C++ liaison*

     None.

*WG14 update*

    Rajan: The big meeting is 2 weeks away. Here are the proposals to be
presented: n3535, n3536, n3537, n3500, n3560, n3598, n3646, n3647, n3648.

*TS-4 and TS-5 revisions*

    None.

*Carry-over action items from last meeting *

    Ly: Send email on expanded complex functions

        None, closed.

.
    Rajan: Monitor the new WG14 issue tracker re. TS 18661-4, the domain
and range error issue, to see the level of interest in making this small
fix.
        Carry over this item, pending the upcoming WG14 meeting.

    Rajan: Bring the N3390 update issue up at WG14 meeting.
        Done, closed.

*Action items from last meeting *
    Jim and group: Check changes to [[reproducible]] example in next C2Y
draft.
        Closed, in disc.

    Jim: Submit proposal re. atan2 and ata2pi.
        Done.

    Jim Submit proposal re. compile time semantics.
        Done.

    Group: Review the doc list in Rajan's email 3530 before the 25 July
WG14 mailing deadline, to ensure
that all submitted proposals are included in his list. Contact CFP or Rajan
directly with any additions.
        [Added after the meeting.] Jim: Contacts Rajan about n3598 – Make
text consistent between creal & cimag.
        Closed.

    Jerome & Jim: Re. the changes of "return value" to "return type", get a
document number, submit, and add to Rajan's list.
        Done.

    Jim: Change the wording of the decouple proposal and update for next
meeting. Use the new X to Y form of suggestion, less heavily dependent on
colored text.
        Done.

    Damian: update the source documents for the 3 Annex F topics under
consideration.
        Done.

    Damian: Send note to JeanHeyd, cc CFP, re. missing quotes around the
invalid exception.
        Done.

    Jim: Write a proposal for changes re. "preferred" quantum exponent.
        Don.

    Jerome: Write a proposal to remove "exp" as an argument name, per
Vincent's suggestion.
        Done.

*Discussion of issues*

     Follow up on the [[reproducible]] example

        Jim: Presents a note from JeanHeyd that recognizes the problem and
solicits a new example, perhaps a fixed point bounding box collision
example.

        Rajan: Suggests that CFP not volunteer.

        Jim: Closed, but offered as extra credit to any enthusiasts. Note,
this need not be a floating point example.

    Decoupling pragmas from headers
        Jim: Shows proposal explaining technique to introduce pragmas
without the synopsis-style presentation that artificially ties them to
headers. No functional change. Action.

    Preferred quantum exponent
        Jim: Presents a proposal developed with input from Vincent, Action.

    Reserved ‘exp’ used in prototypes
        Jerome:  Presents a proposal based on Vincent's observation. The
background is some intriguing, long-running discussion about "identifiers
reserved for all uses" by the standard. Rajan provided some useful reading
(far beyond the scope of this simple change).
        Jim The comment about the typography of the "_FloatN" parameterized
types should note that the "N" is italic. Jerome will fix. With that
change, it's ready to submit. Action.

    Removing imaginary I
        Jim: Discusses 4 detailed issues with the proposal put forth by
Alex Celeste. He will write them up for Rajan to take to the WG14 meeting.
Briefly, one expresses the mathematical value "5 + i 3" as "5.0 + i 3.0"
suggesting a computer representation. Damian noted that the associated
example uses the unfortunate variable "j", which is the imaginary unit in
EE contexts. Another element in the proposal refers to the outdated complex
expression the definition of cproj(), the topic of much lively CFP chat in
this calendar year. Finally, one proposed change seems to refer to text
already removed from C2Y.
        Jim & Rajan: The proposal does contain a handy choice of two
one-line expressions to introduce I just after including complex.h. Jim
suggests a Note in the complex.h section. Rajan suggests that CFP wait for
WG14 to respond and then perhaps offer to create a proposal for the
"simple" Note.
        Jerome: Offers to write the proposal, if needed.
        Action.

    FE_TOWARDSZERO in C23 and C2Y draft
        Jim: This spelling error of FE_TOWARDZERO can merge with missing
quotes, next.

    Missing quotes in C standard
        Jim: Suggest Rajan bring up both the "S" in "TOWARDS" and the
missing quotes to JeanHeyd. Action

     Annex F - syntax for function special cases
        Damian: Presents a proposal for tightening up the language across
the broad swath of definitions. Notes that Annex F is pretty solid, but
that the real impact will be next, in Annex G.
        Jim & Jerome: Jim raises concerns about the phrasing of the
problem, leading to some wordsmithing about the discussion of the proposal.
        Jim: Recommends backing off on the language about results delivered
via pointer.
        Action.

    Annex F - integer ‘n’
        Damian: Presents a proposal to remove unneeded "integer" specifiers.
        Ji:m: Notes that these cases are algebraic (that is, mathematical)
n. An example is tanpi().
        Jerome: Side note, why is the locution "for integers n" with the
plural, when the usual language is "for integer n"?
        Action.

*Other issues*
    None.

*Adjournment*

    10:04 AM PDT

-----------------------------------------------

*Action items to be carried over*

    None.

*New action items*

    Jim:  Submit pragma proposal.

    Jim: Submit preferred quantum exponent proposal.

    Jerome & Jim: Re. the "exp" fix proposal, note the italic face,  get a
doc number, and submit.

    Jim: Write note for Rajan to bring up for WG14 re. removing imaginary I.

    Rajan: Call both TOWARDS and missing quotes issues to JeanHeyd's
attention.

    Damian: In the Annex F syntax discussion, revert to prior wording of
stored function results. Clarify a bit of the introductory discussion, too.

    Damian: Re. "integer n" proposal, revisit the algebraic versus integer
type uses of "n", and adjust the proposal accordingly.

*Discussion issues to be carried over*

     Annex F – Special case domains, signaling NaNs

    Output bounds for math functions

    Overflow, non-default rounding, errno

    Rounding Direction Mode or Rounding Direction or Rounding Mode

    F10.1#14

    F.10.9.1 - nextafter(x, y)

    canonicalize() in AnnexF - F.10.9.7

    hypot(x, y) - C2Y F.10.5.4

    hypot(x, NAN) in Annex F

     Magnitude or Absolute Value or |x| or ....

    Preferred Style in Annex F - fromfp/fromfpx or nearbyint/rint

    More complex functions, e.g. ccbrt, csinpi

*Signoff*
    Respectfully submitted.

-Jerome Coonen
 650.996.4738
 jcoonen at gmail.com
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