[Cfp-interest] WG14 IEEE 754-C binding meeting minutes 2018/01/09

Rajan Bhakta rbhakta at us.ibm.com
Tue Jan 9 11:04:35 PST 2018


  Attendees: Rajan, Jim, Ian, Fred, Mike, David H, Clark, 

  New agenda items:
    DR16 (Clark)
    Fred email DECIMAL_DIG
    Jim's email about TS update
    Fred's email regarding roundToEven
 
    Ian: Retiring at end of May this year
    Ian: POWER9 will have IEEE quad precision

  Last meeting action items:
    Ian: See if there is an incompatibility between C and C++ for 
constants being evaluated to a wider format (Ex. FLT_EVAL_METHOD affects 
constants in C++, and wider return values) - Keep open (Hubert: Not 
defined and left up to C)
    Jim: tgmath_for_narrowing_functions (DR13, part 3): Need to bring in 
functions that cover three arguments. - Done.
    Jim: tgmath_for_narrowing_functions (DR13, part 3): Rewording for the 
f32mul example. - Done.
    Jim: Create a new paper along the lines of 
tgmath_for_narrowing_functions proposing a new TC for CFP DR13. - Done.
    Jim: Write a DR addressing WG14 reflector message 14885 using the 
email sent by Jim on 2017/11/13. - Done.
    Fred: Look through the new functions and see what is missing in Annex 
F. - Not done.
    Fred: Follow up with inconsistencies in Infinities references in 
function descriptions in our TS via email. - Done.
    Fred: Look into 754:2018 4.3.1 (roundTiesToEven) applies to us for 
string conversion (printf for example). - Done.
    Jim: Update the binding table in parts 1 and 2 to handle the new 
IEEE-754:2018 functions when published. - Keep open.
    David H: Look into the consistency with our TS and IEEE-754:2018 for 
5.3.2, 9.2, 9.2.1, 9.2.2 and 9.4. - Done.
    Jim: Update activities list (
http://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/in_flight-20171004.pdf) with new 
status (LaTeX integration) and items (consistency with 754:2018 draft, 
special cases in Annex F). - Done.

  New action items:
    exp10m1: Look at exp10m1 difference between the TS and 754 in more 
detail.
    pow: Add a note to F10.4.4 pow to say it is the same as IEEE-754.
    reduc_sumprod: "computed sum" -> "computed dot product" for clarity.
    Jim: Add preferred exponents functions list to part 4.
    Jim: Get a N# and post the new TC for DR13 to WG14.
    Jim: Create a new DR for arguments for comparison macros (
http://wiki.edg.com/pub/CFP/WebHome/DR_for_incommensurate_arguments_for_comparison_macros.pdf
)
    Fred: Draft a note for roundTiesToEven for the exceptional case of two 
odd values.
    Jim: Draft a proposal for CR_DECIMAL_DIG corrections (with the removal 
of DECIMAL_DIG) and updating the footnote (F.5).
    Jim: DR15: Make the Suggested TC the Proposed TC.
    Jim: Re-update the activities list from results from today.

  Issues:
    Does CR_DECIMAL_DIG have the same issues as DECIMAL_DIG?
    Why does the cbrt macro (DR16) have the parameters inside the generic 
selection?

  Next Meetings:
    February 20th, 2018, 12:00 EDT, 9:00 PST
    Same teleconference number.

  Discussion:
    IEEE 754 revision:
      Adding payload functions found a lot of issues. Being resolved.
      The existing 2008 standard expires at the end of 2018. Looking into 
extending the lifetime until the new one can take over.

    C++ liaison:
      Nothing.
 
    C DR16:
      Clark: Concerns: A lot of effort in improving an example. Also 
cascading error.
      Jim: The change is not to the example, it is a TS description of 
what needs to be changed to support tgmath with this if it followed what 
the example did.
      Clark: If the compiler knows that a math library function is being 
called, the implementation should honor the static rounding mode.
        Jim: It's a part of the semantics of the macro. If you are using 
the macro (like the tgmath.h cbrt macro), this describes what you would 
expect.
        Clark: Why are you trying to describe the implementation?
        Jim: Since the C standard shows how it can be implemented for 
tgmath. This is a note to show what needs to be done to make it work. As 
it is it would not work the way it is (i.e. would not support static 
rounding modes).
      Clark: History: If a library function was called indirectly it is 
not required to support static rounding modes. This was changed to the 
macro expansion text which is where you went off the rails.
        Jim: If macro expansion has been disabled, the modes are not 
supported.
      Jim: We do say explicitly that if you do suppress macro expansion 
you will not get static rounding.
      Clark: The original example in the standard was carefully crafted to 
not have the argument list being listed multiple times.
        Jim: Don't know why that was done. May have been a reason. We can 
put that aside.
        Clark: Was the parameter list moved inside to allow further macro 
expansion?
          Jim: We can look into why that was done.
      Clark: Moving the argument list outside the selection and knowing 
you are doing what you are doing on purpose is a step in the right 
direction. Just keep me in the loop (send an email) about things that 
touch generic selection.
        If the original motivation was to handle indirect calls, allowing 
a way to force not using static rounding modes is not good and this is the 
wrong way to go.
 
    Email Issues:
      Consistency between CFP TS and IEEE-754:2008 (David's email on 
2018/01/08):
        tanpi: Likely implementations present now.
          David: IEEE didn't add it due to strange formats (not the zero 
and inf).
        atan2pi: Jim: Domain errors is historical. Should be consistent 
otherwise.
        exp10m1: David: Seems to be a mistake in the TS.
          Jim: The difference in the value that is returned is too small 
to affect the result. i.e You can't get a small and inexact result.
          *Look at exp10m1 issues in more detail.
          Fred: Currently says range error if finite x is too large, but 
it should be positive finite x.
            Jim: It is already a defect right? Can raise it via email if 
needed.
        pow: David: We should translate the IEEE spec into the C spec as 
close as possible to make it easier to compare.
          Jim: But comparisons between C versions would then change.
          David: We could have a statement saying it is the same as 754, 
just in a different order.
          *Add a note to F10.4.4 pow to say it is the same as IEEE-754.
        powr: *Look into the difference between powr in the TS vs 754 in 
more detail.
          Fred: We do list it as an error in part 4.
          Remove the action item.
        reduc_sumprod: Jim: I don't think we use the term dot product 
anywhere.
          David: We do. In 7.12.13b4.
          *reduc_sumprod: "computed sum" -> "computed dot product" for 
clarity.
        Preferred exponents: Missing entries for rsqrt, compound, rootn, 
pown, powr for preferred quantum exponents.
          David: These are new functions (not in C) so they should not be 
in Part 2, but should be in Part 4.
          *Jim: We just missed them in part 4 I believe.
 
      tgmath for narrowing functions (2017/11/18): 
        Jim: Can remove some extra wording ("determined", "real type") 
since it is already defined and determined.
        New TC for DR13 (2018/01/02): Has all the changes.
        *AI: Jim: Get a document number and send this to WG14.
 
      DR addressing arguments for comparison macros (2018/01/02):
        Create a new DR for this.
 
      Inconsistencies in specification of infinities (2018/01/08 email 
titled "fadd, fsub and domain errors"):
        Fred: Not too hard make the changes.
          Listing functions that list infinities and NaNs. There are quite 
a few that mention them. It is not just in Annex F.
          nextafter: Jim: The infinite there is helpful since not 
representable may be confusing. Infinite is there since it is helpful.
 
          The last part (754 vs 18661) is for another action item. Will 
follow up via email.
        Jim: There is no attempt to cover all inf and nan cases.
        Fred: If we keep the existing mentioning of inf and nan, we should 
add fadd and fsub or mention that domain errors occur for inf arguments 
with opposite sign for the TS.
        Jim: If an implementation has unsigned inf, is a domain error 
allowed?
          Fred: For fsub, yes, but not for fadd.
 
        Fred to send an email if this proposal is wanted.
 
      roundTiesToEven (2018/01/08, 09):
        Fred: 754 requires taking the larger magnitude one if both are 
odd.
          Our doc follows printf for rounding.
          We should add this one example to show the unusual case.
          Jim: Is a note OK?
          Fred: Fine.
 
      DECIMAL_DIG (2017/11/19):
        Fred: Without DECIMAL_DIG, the other definitions need something 
(CR_DECIMAL_DIG).
          Jim: We can have the formula for DECIMAL_DIG + 3 to replace 
DECIMAL_DIG.
            It should support extended, interchange and non-arithmetic.
            In part 1, we talk about supported formats, so CR_DECIMAL_DIG 
should be fine (vs the issue with DECIMAL_DIG). In part 3 the other 
formats should have it working automatically.
          *Issue: Does CR_DECIMAL_DIG have the same issues as DECIMAL_DIG.
          *Jim: Write up a proposal on changes based on this email.
          This should not be a part of DR501 since it is for Part 1, not 
the C standard.
 
      DR15 (2018/01/06):
        Will make the change as editorial but keep the suggested TC as the 
proposed TC.

    Binding for IEEE 754-2018:
      Payload: We will have to change.
      The rest seem fine (will discuss augmented arithmetic after with 
Mike and David present).
 
    C2X integration:
      Jim: Any guidelines for using git?
        Rajan: Jens said anyone can create branches. We should get the N 
document that is submitted for FDIS.
          Some committee members prefer the full document, not just the 
diff list.
 
    Activities:
      Defer to next meeting.
 
    Other:
      None.

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